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Benitez Future In Doubt Over Failure to Secure Key Signings

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NU72 said:
It's not though, It's now the champions league and is a completely different competition to the European Cup of the 80s.

I'm just highlighting this constant use of a 'current major trophy'. The Fairs Cup was a pre-cursor to the UEFA Cup, there's no need to claim it wasn't simply because your local rivals won it.
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We beat you 1-9 once.
 
NU72 said:
It's not though, It's now the champions league and is a completely different competition to the European Cup of the 80s.

I'm just highlighting this constant use of a 'current major trophy'. The Fairs Cup was a pre-cursor to the UEFA Cup, there's no need to claim it wasn't simply because your local rivals won it.
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It came before the UEFA Cup, it didn't become it ..... the European Cup became the Champions League, both major honours.

Horses came before cars but it doesn't make them Vauxhall Astras :lol:

"In the 1971–72 season the competition was taken over by
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.

By replacing the trophy, renaming the competition, and revising the entry regulations, UEFA effectively ended the Fairs Cup."
 
Mallard said:
The amount of money spent last summer that squad shouldnt need overhauled.
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The 15/16 squad needed to be overhauled for the Championship. That Championship winning squad needs to be built upon to make it ready for the top flight.

We spent less than Villa, we bought 11 new players, got a good mix of youth and experience, were promoted as champions at the first time of asking.

We're now selling some of that squad and adding young hungry players and gambling on apparent quality from other leagues. We've spent a bit, but not an inordinate amount. Less than Huddersfield e.g.

I honestly can't see people's problem beyond the fact that the club that undertook those overhauls is Newcastle United...
 
Reiver said:
OK, so put me straight ...... what was the last current major trophy won by Newcastle, I'd say it was the FA Cup in 1955.

The Fairs Cup was disbanded and the cup given away.

It was never recognised by UEFA who started an entirely different competition with new qualification criteria and rules.



This thread isn't about Sunderland, Villa or Forest, it's about a club that's failed to win things since before you were born.
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I think it's fairly obvious that the UEFA Cup replaced the Fairs Cup. UEFA didn't organise the Fairs Cup and, as such, don't include it in their records. FIFA recognise it as a major trophy.
 
The Fish said:
The 15/16 squad needed to be overhauled for the Championship. That Championship winning squad needs to be built upon to make it ready for the top flight.

We spent less than Villa, we bought 11 new players, got a good mix of youth and experience, were promoted as champions at the first time of asking.

We're now selling some of that squad and adding young hungry players and gambling on apparent quality from other leagues. We've spent a bit, but not an inordinate amount. Less than Huddersfield e.g.

I honestly can't see people's problem beyond the fact that the club that undertook those overhauls is Newcastle United...
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Glass eye to sleep
 
NU72 said:
I think it's fairly obvious that the UEFA Cup replaced the Fairs Cup.

UEFA didn't organise the Fairs Cup and, as such, don't include it in their records. FIFA recognise it as a major trophy.
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Therefore it's not a 'current major trophy' and my argument isn't invalid ...... thanks for confirming that.

FIFA had absolutely nothing to do with the Fairs Cup and only 'recognised it' because the organisers later shoved their snouts in the FIFA trough and attempted to justify the competition.

Those 'organisers' were Thommen, Barassi and Rous all of whom had personally made huge amounts from the Fairs Cup.
 
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The Fish said:
The 15/16 squad needed to be overhauled for the Championship. That Championship winning squad needs to be built upon to make it ready for the top flight.

We spent less than Villa, we bought 11 new players, got a good mix of youth and experience, were promoted as champions at the first time of asking.

We're now selling some of that squad and adding young hungry players and gambling on apparent quality from other leagues. We've spent a bit, but not an inordinate amount. Less than Huddersfield e.g.

I honestly can't see people's problem beyond the fact that the club that undertook those overhauls is Newcastle United...
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85 million in a year is surely enough for a world class manager to get a team promoted and keep them up. If Grayson got this much I would be expecting promotion and a comfortable season away from the drop zone.
 
Zig81 said:
You must not have had much of a life yet then.
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You wouldn't consider travelling to Milan or Barcelona to watch Sunderland play them in a champions league game one of the best days of your life then? Fair enough...
 
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Binxy said:
85 million in a year is surely enough for a world class manager to get a team promoted and keep them up. If Grayson got this much I would be expecting promotion and a comfortable season away from the drop zone.
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We'll see, >£50m wasn't enough for Villa to get promoted, they didn't even make the play off spots. McClaren spent £80m in one season and we still went down. It's not about money spent. It's about building a squad, training and coaching them and motivating them to deliver on your targets.

If Benitez spends £100m in the 17/18 season, over two windows and we go down, it's his fault.
 
NU72 said:
I think it's fairly obvious that the UEFA Cup replaced the Fairs Cup. UEFA didn't organise the Fairs Cup and, as such, don't include it in their records. FIFA recognise it as a major trophy.
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Fairly obvious when they are seperate competitions?

Fairs was an invite only for citys with trade markets nowt to do with football. Uefa cup was because you did well in your domestic league or cup
 
The Fish said:
The 15/16 squad needed to be overhauled for the Championship. That Championship winning squad needs to be built upon to make it ready for the top flight.

We spent less than Villa, we bought 11 new players, got a good mix of youth and experience, were promoted as champions at the first time of asking.

We're now selling some of that squad and adding young hungry players and gambling on apparent quality from other leagues. We've spent a bit, but not an inordinate amount. Less than Huddersfield e.g.

I honestly can't see people's problem beyond the fact that the club that undertook those overhauls is Newcastle United...
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I'd be worried if I were black and white - the current recruitment seems to be a bit like ours from the last few years - adding "squad players" like Manquillo, untested players from other PL clubs like Atsu and foreign no-bodies. I think you need a massive injection of PL quality into the side otherwise you will be in a relegation battle - not sure any of your first XI are good enough for the PL. Gayle might get you 5 goals, Shelvey will connect with 1 or 2 of his 200 hollywood passes per game but apart from that the squad and the side looks desperately weak.
 
The Fish said:
We'll see, >£50m wasn't enough for Villa to get promoted, they didn't even make the play off spots. McClaren spent £80m in one season and we still went down. It's not about money spent. It's about building a squad, training and coaching them and motivating them to deliver on your targets.

If Benitez spends £100m in the 17/18 season, over two windows and we go down, it's his fault.
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Why do you feel the need to compare everything with Villa, what they spent and ultimately failed to do is irrelevant. McLaren was a failure and so will Benitez be if you go down.
 
The Fish said:
Well, apart from Aston Villa. Who spent more. And who didn't get promoted. Certainly not as champions.
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Round and round we go :lol:

Bruce wasnt manager when they spent that money. You use villa as a argument but then dismiss it when its used against Rafa already having a good enough squad when he arrived.

Called having your cake and eating it.
 
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