Heard from a scouser

[Giddup Sausage!]

Di Canio's 8 games at the end of 2012/13 season.
P8 W2 D2 L4 - PPG 0.75

Benitez 8 games at the end of last season
P8 W3 D3 L2 - PPG 1.38

Not really comparable tbf. If Benitez had Di Canio's target we'd have pissed it. Even if you take away the dead rubber of the Spurs game and shift it a game forward it's P8 W2 D3 L3 which still exceeds Di Canio's record.

Only Advocaat's survival PPG record is better than Benitez's last season.

PPG is bullshit tho. It also depends on who you were playing. Newcastle had a f***ing easy run of a few games where if they had won they would have been safe (Villa etc.). Most on here were fearing that and thinking we were down. He fucked it up.

X is connected to Newcastle, some Sunderland fans countenance nothing positive about Newcastle, therefore X is bad.

It would be like us declaring Defoe must be shit because he's signed for Sunderland and Sunderland are shit. When, objectively, Defoe is a leading goal scorer in the Premier League. The dismissal of Benitez's trophy wins is churlish.

Nothing like that though. He has a good collection of trophies. But, unlike some, we look deeper than what he has won. Liverpool were driven by Gerrard and he was the main reason they were so successful (that and Torres playing like Superman for a few seasons). Someone else said his Vallencia was basically someone elses team. He won something with Chelsea which a blind man with half a brain could have done.

He has failed spectacularly at his last big appointments (and little Newcastle ).

I'm not saying he is as bad as some make out. He is a decent enough manager, good enough for Newcastle and possibly take them from being relegation yoyo's every year. But he isn't this World Class managers the mags are trying to make out. If he was, he wouldn't be at Newcastle in the Championship. Could you see any of the big name managers going into the Championship? No. So why Benitez? Surely he could have had his pick if he was so good?

Declaring Defoe as being shit is idiotic. He is proving NOW that he isn't. Benitez is proving nothing at the moment and has failed most recently in every job he has had. Defoe is banging them in and has done all his career. Yes he shouldn't be with us, but he is. Much like Shearer was with you lot when he could have had a pick of clubs (tho Defoe will leave for better when he can I'd suspect).

 

[Sima]

PPG is bullshit tho. It also depends on who you were playing. Newcastle had a f***ing easy run of a few games where if they had won they would have been safe (Villa etc.). Most on here were fearing that and thinking we were down. He fucked it up.



Nothing like that though. He has a good collection of trophies. But, unlike some, we look deeper than what he has won. Liverpool were driven by Gerrard and he was the main reason they were so successful (that and Torres playing like Superman for a few seasons). Someone else said his Vallencia was basically someone elses team. He won something with Chelsea which a blind man with half a brain could have done.

He has failed spectacularly at his last big appointments (and little Newcastle ).

I'm not saying he is as bad as some make out. He is a decent enough manager, good enough for Newcastle and possibly take them from being relegation yoyo's every year. But he isn't this World Class managers the mags are trying to make out. If he was, he wouldn't be at Newcastle in the Championship. Could you see any of the big name managers going into the Championship? No. So why Benitez? Surely he could have had his pick if he was so good?

Declaring Defoe as being shit is idiotic. He is proving NOW that he isn't. Benitez is proving nothing at the moment and has failed most recently in every job he has had. Defoe is banging them in and has done all his career. Yes he shouldn't be with us, but he is. Much like Shearer was with you lot when he could have had a pick of clubs (tho Defoe will leave for better when he can I'd suspect).

So the situations aren't comparable then? You know, like I was saying? Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Giddup Sausage!]

So the situations aren't comparable then? You know, like I was saying? Thanks for agreeing with me.

They tend not to be directly comparable due to different teams they had to play in the run ins. But Benitez had safety in the bag with the few teams he had to beat and fucked it up. Our managers managed to keep us up and beat some good teams in the process.

 

[Sima]

They tend not to be directly comparable due to different teams they had to play in the run ins. But Benitez had safety in the bag with the few teams he had to beat and fucked it up. Our managers managed to keep us up and beat some good teams in the process.

Even if he did fuck those games up he got more points than Di Canio anyway. If he had Di Canio's target I've shown those results are irrelevant although you could argue the draw against Sunderland was pivotal as it gained you a point in the process.

Di Canio only beat Everton apart from a Pardew-managed Newcastle. One of which in my opinion wasn't a 'good team'

You'll get no argument that Poyet in particular pulled out some excellent results btw but Benitez drew against Man City (H) and Liverpool (A) at the back end of last season. He was unbeaten in his last six games.

 

[The Fish]

Nothing like that though. He has a good collection of trophies. But, unlike some, we look deeper than what he has won. Liverpool were driven by Gerrard and he was the main reason they were so successful (that and Torres playing like Superman for a few seasons). Someone else said his Vallencia was basically someone elses team. He won something with Chelsea which a blind man with half a brain could have done.

He has failed spectacularly at his last big appointments (and little Newcastle ).

I'm not saying he is as bad as some make out. He is a decent enough manager, good enough for Newcastle and possibly take them from being relegation yoyo's every year. But he isn't this World Class managers the mags are trying to make out. If he was, he wouldn't be at Newcastle in the Championship. Could you see any of the big name managers going into the Championship? No. So why Benitez? Surely he could have had his pick if he was so good?

Declaring Defoe as being shit is idiotic. He is proving NOW that he isn't. Benitez is proving nothing at the moment and has failed most recently in every job he has had. Defoe is banging them in and has done all his career. Yes he shouldn't be with us, but he is. Much like Shearer was with you lot when he could have had a pick of clubs (tho Defoe will leave for better when he can I'd suspect).

You're ok with literally dismissing Benitez's influence on Liverpool, Valencia and Chelsea? I mean I could understand if he had failed everywhere else he's been, but he patently hasn't. If he was someone like Di Matteo; inheriting a superb side for the last 3rd of the season and guiding them to competition successes, but then failing everywhere that followed, I'd understand the reticence to admit he's a very good manager. But he's won stuff all over the shop, winning La Liga with a team that isn't Barcelona or Real Madrid, how often has that happened?

Can you see, that from my perspective your criticism of Benitez is contradicted by his various successes? He's loved in Valencia, he's loved in Liverpool too, surely if he were the charlatan you imply the fans who watched his teams week in, week out wouldn't be so warm to him?

Fwiw, I (and most lads I know) don't think he is "world class", but he's much, much better than Sunderland fans claim.

Benitez is proving the critics wrong who declared he wouldn't be able to do it in the Championship because he has no experience in that league. He's overhauled, built, coached and lead a team towards automatic promotion.

I know thati it's idiotic, that's my point. Because this is where your argument falls down; "Defoe is good and shouldn't be with us but he is", but "If Rafa was good he wouldn't be with you". Can't you see how those two statements don't follow the same logic? You're lucky to have Defoe because he's a very good striker, we're lucky to have Rafa because he's a very good manager.

For what it's worth, he cited a few reasons for joining Newcastle; the chance to build something at a "sleeping giant", the opportunity to manage in England, close to his family, and yes the fans. Now, the last bit might be lip service, and he's not mentioned the money he's on, but if you look at the clubs available that fit that criteria (sleeping giant, English, close to family, etc) there aren't very many. Even less when you consider that the very top Premier League teams wouldn't want him right now (Wenger, Conte, Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pochettino), it makes sense that a very good manager would want the Newcastle job. Just like, if it had been pitched properly and were one available, a very good manager would have been keen on the Villa job too.

Also, we're not "relegation yoyos every year", we've been relegated twice in 7 years, that would be a terrifically shit yoyo.

 

[mergleb]

If you heard it from a Scouser then it must be true.

Hardly. Most scousers are inveterate liars. IMHO.

 

[Richie K]

Di Canio's 8 games at the end of 2012/13 season.
P8 W2 D2 L4 - PPG 0.75

Benitez 8 games at the end of last season
P8 W3 D3 L2 - PPG 1.38

Not really comparable tbf. If Benitez had Di Canio's target we'd have pissed it. Even if you take away the dead rubber of the Spurs game and shift it a game forward it's P8 W2 D3 L3 which still exceeds Di Canio's record.

Only Advocaat's survival PPG record is better than Benitez's last season.

Its all about must win games mate, against your relegation rivals....not dead rubbers. How about Rafa's first 5 games in charge vs Di Canios first 5?

 

[Left For Dead]

Oh, I dunno, I reckon Watford, West Brom and their ilk would be delighted to have a manager like Benitez. His stock is low on Wearside for obvious reasons, but elsewhere people know he's a good manager with a good reputation and an impressive trophy record.


This, unwittingly, kind of proves a different point.

X is connected to Newcastle, some Sunderland fans countenance nothing positive about Newcastle, therefore X is bad.

It would be like us declaring Defoe must be shit because he's signed for Sunderland and Sunderland are shit. When, objectively, Defoe is a leading goal scorer in the Premier League. The dismissal of Benitez's trophy wins is churlish.



Say it quietly, but 11 players who should win you promotion, for £55m isn't bad business at all.

Pickford, Kone and a few others could fund the kind of overhaul Sunderland need to push for automatic promotion at the first time of asking. Say you get £50m for JP, LK, DN + one or two others; you could buy 3 players for around £10m, and 4 players for around £5m. 7 new players who the new manager can use as a core, with squad players from your youth team and existing squad.

it's not bad business but you only got 55 million as you had a few assets and sold amazing prices. If you had no assets I wonder how much Mike would have given you. We have the making of a canny Championship team if we can get Honeyman, the yank and a few others to develop. Oh, and mag - you haven't got promotion yet.

 

[McMackem]

Also, we're not "relegation yoyos every year", we've been relegated twice in 7 years, that would be a terrifically shit yoyo.

DOWN, UP, DOWN, ...ah, we don't know yet despite a record splurge and a 'world class manager', we'll need that UP confirmed before you fully deserve the label 'yo-yo club'.

 

[Reiver]

They tend not to be directly comparable due to different teams they had to play in the run ins. But Benitez had safety in the bag with the few teams he had to beat and fucked it up. Our managers managed to keep us up and beat some good teams in the process.

Di Canio had absolutely no PL or top flight experience .....

 

[Sima]

it's not bad business but you only got 55 million as you had a few assets and sold amazing prices. If you had no assets I wonder how much Mike would have given you. We have the making of a canny Championship team if we can get Honeyman, the yank and a few others to develop. Oh, and mag - you haven't got promotion yet.

Hold on a minute, when we discuss our spending (-£30m net spend) we are told by others on here that the money we recouped from transfers is irrelevant?

 

[The Fish]

it's not bad business but you only got 55 million as you had a few assets and sold amazing prices. If you had no assets I wonder how much Mike would have given you. We have the making of a canny Championship team if we can get Honeyman, the yank and a few others to develop. Oh, and mag - you haven't got promotion yet.

Aye, but you should raise a good amount for Pickford and Kone + a couple others, I wouldn't be surprised if it was not too far off £50m.

No, not yet, but we're on course, which is all I've said.

DOWN, UP, DOWN, ...ah, we don't know yet despite a record splurge and a 'world class manager', we'll need that UP confirmed before you fully deserve the label 'yo-yo club'.

Down
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(3679200 minutes later ) Down

You've had shit yoyos mate.

For me, a yo-yo club is a sporting side that is regularly promoted and relegated, like

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, I wouldn't say 2 relegations in 7 years is indicative of a Yoyo club...

 

[Giddup Sausage!]

For me, a yo-yo club is a sporting side that is regularly promoted and relegated, like

You must be logged on to see external links

, I wouldn't say 2 relegations in 7 years is indicative of a Yoyo club...

So you are relegated from the Prem (recently) every 3.5 years. Now once relegated you have to have a season in the Championship so 2 of those years are not in the Prem. So for your 5 years in the Prem, again recently, you have been relegated twice. That's pretty quick in footballing terms. Yo?

 

[WildTurkey]

Rafa has fallen out with Ashley and is looking for a way out in the summer. If Pochettino goes to Barca he wants Spurs.

The scoucers uncle is Rafas agent supposedly......

I reckon Rafa would jump at the chance to manage spurs rather than us

However spurs can do far better

 

[The Great MES]

You're ok with literally dismissing Benitez's influence on Liverpool, Valencia and Chelsea? I mean I could understand if he had failed everywhere else he's been, but he patently hasn't. If he was someone like Di Matteo; inheriting a superb side for the last 3rd of the season and guiding them to competition successes, but then failing everywhere that followed, I'd understand the reticence to admit he's a very good manager. But he's won stuff all over the shop, winning La Liga with a team that isn't Barcelona or Real Madrid, how often has that happened?

Can you see, that from my perspective your criticism of Benitez is contradicted by his various successes? He's loved in Valencia, he's loved in Liverpool too, surely if he were the charlatan you imply the fans who watched his teams week in, week out wouldn't be so warm to him?

Fwiw, I (and most lads I know) don't think he is "world class", but he's much, much better than Sunderland fans claim.

Benitez is proving the critics wrong who declared he wouldn't be able to do it in the Championship because he has no experience in that league. He's overhauled, built, coached and lead a team towards automatic promotion.

I know thati it's idiotic, that's my point. Because this is where your argument falls down; "Defoe is good and shouldn't be with us but he is", but "If Rafa was good he wouldn't be with you". Can't you see how those two statements don't follow the same logic? You're lucky to have Defoe because he's a very good striker, we're lucky to have Rafa because he's a very good manager.

For what it's worth, he cited a few reasons for joining Newcastle; the chance to build something at a "sleeping giant", the opportunity to manage in England, close to his family, and yes the fans. Now, the last bit might be lip service, and he's not mentioned the money he's on, but if you look at the clubs available that fit that criteria (sleeping giant, English, close to family, etc) there aren't very many. Even less when you consider that the very top Premier League teams wouldn't want him right now (Wenger, Conte, Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, Pochettino), it makes sense that a very good manager would want the Newcastle job. Just like, if it had been pitched properly and were one available, a very good manager would have been keen on the Villa job too.

Also, we're not "relegation yoyos every year", we've been relegated twice in 7 years, that would be a terrifically shit yoyo.

Why would you come on here every day on our board typing all this? Have you all nothing else better to do? Haway lads life's too short ffs

 

[The Fish]

So you are relegated from the Prem (recently) every 3.5 years. Now once relegated you have to have a season in the Championship so 2 of those years are not in the Prem. So for your 5 years in the Prem, again recently, you have been relegated twice. That's pretty quick in footballing terms. Yo?

No, we've been relegated twice in 9 seasons, so we're relegated from the Premier League (recently) every 7 years. Now, once relegated we have to have a season in the Championship so 2 of those 9 seasons are not in the Premier League. So for our 7 seasons we've been relegated twice. That's not very quick in football terms. No.

1 - 08/09 - 18th PREM Relegation 1
2 - 09/10 - 1st CHAMP
3 - 10/11 - PREM
4 - 11/12 - PREM
5 - 12/13 - PREM
6 - 13/14 - PREM
7 - 14/15 - PREM
8 - 15/16 - 18th PREM Relegation 2
9 - 16/17 - CHAMP

Why would you come on here every day on our board typing all this? Have you all nothing else better to do? Haway lads life's too short ffs

Right to reply.

 

[SShields84]

Is 'Charlatan' the f***ing word of the week or something or is this a Britpop nostalgia board and i've got lost somewhere?

 

[Sima]

Why would you come on here every day on our board typing all this? Have you all nothing else better to do? Haway lads life's too short ffs

I'm sure I've seen posts from you claiming Newcastle fans only post on here when we are winning. Are we always winning?

 

[The Great MES]

I'm sure I've seen posts from you claiming Newcastle fans only post on here when we are winning. Are we always winning?

No. I said you lot only seem to post on here when we're doing shit. And low and behold...

 

[The Fish]

No. I said you lot only seem to post on here when we're doing shit. And low and behold...

To be fair, Sunderland have been flirting with relegation for years and most of the regular Newcastle posters came on here after the derby defeats and the relegation.