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View from one more West Ham fan

  • Thread starter Thread starter whufaninpeace
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whufaninpeace said:
West Ham fan in peace (as the name implies),

I just wanted to write here to give you a West Ham fan's opinion on Big Sam, to give you the full story on his time at West Ham, and how I believe he will be one of the better managers you've ever had. This will be a lengthy post, so to avoid wasting your time, if you don't feel like reading the whole thing, the highlights are in bold.

First my opinion on BS. When he was appointed, there were a lot of reservations from the West Ham faithful, due to his perceived image. I was reluctant, but I knew he was what was needed at the time. The owners gave him all of the tools he needed to succeed, including a huge budget, and the pick of his captain, Kevin Nolan. To Allardyce's credit (which he deserves a ton of), he came in immediately, cleared out the deadwood, changed the ethos of the club from a dejected and broken group of individuals, to a confident and united squad, and brought in practically an entirely new squad. What he achieved in his first two seasons with West Ham was nothing short of exceptional. Every West Ham fan I know is extremely grateful for what he has done for this club. He took us from the doom and gloom of the Avram Grant season, to a decent mid table premier league side. For that, the reasonable West Ham fans (not the minority hiding behind their computer screens) are eternally grateful. Who knows where we would be without him right now, and that playoff final vs Blackpool will go down as one of my favorite memories ever.

The reason things started to change, was due to the severe change in our form last season. I know some of it was due to the fact that he more than likely knew he wouldn't be in a job come season's end, but don't fall into the trap created by his friends in the media and believe that he was treated poorly by the owners. Some of the fans, yes, but the owners did nothing wrong. The problem we had with the side was that our early season form, and the way we were playing was spectacular. No West Ham fans were booing Allardyce during this time, and we had all believed he had turned a corner and could push on from his typical style of play. However, we were playing this way because of the absence of Kevin Nolan and Andy Carroll due to injury. We were able to inject pace into the side and worked a high press, which worked wonderfully. Also, I am in no way slagging off the two players, as Kevin Nolan was vital in uniting our squad, and was a useful player in his first two seasons, and Andy Carroll is unplayable on his day. Once these two were back and (barely) fit, Allardyce proceeded to take out the spine of the squad that was doing so well, abandon the 4-4-2 that had Sakho and Valencia unplayable, Downing unstoppable at the tip of the diamond, and revert to his 4-5-1 with long balls over Big Andy's head, and a reliance on set pieces, and Downing shunted out on the wing. It was so disheartening to watch. We then only won 3 games for the rest of the season, playing football that was, to be frank, turgid at best. We knew that we had a squad capable of playing some good football, but it just wasn't happening.

The booing of the win vs Hull: I wasn't there that game, but I had quite a few (reasonable) mates who were. Every time I hear about the booing, it seems the number of fans booing has increased a considerable amount. It was only a few hundred who booed. The reason the boos were heard is because the rest of the fans were still in shock with how the game went. We were completely played off the park by an awful Hull side playing with 10 men, and only won due to a scrappy OG and a red card/penalty decision. I remember thinking at the final whistle, "How the f*** did we win that?!". It was truly awful, and I definitely didn't find myself applauding, but I would never boo a win, and the fans who did should be ashamed.

The media perceived West Ham fans' delusion/the West Ham way: There seems to be a belief from some other fans and the media that we coined "The West Ham Way", that we demand our manager to play that way, and that we expect to be a top 4 team. Most West Ham fans are realistic and are perfectly happy with competing in the top half of the table. With the new stadium move coming up, that may change in the next 2-5 years, but for now we are perfectly happy with top half, and ecstatic at where we are at the moment. There is no set "West Ham Way". What we like our teams to do is work hard, and have a belief that they can go out there and win every game. There is no set style, and we are perfectly fine with our team mixing in the occasional direct ball forward with the passing style and quick press.
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Well said and thanks for your time, we will be okay.
 

ShieldsBlackCat2015 said:
I wish I could believe a word @whufaninpeace says. Sadly proof of the pudding is in the eating. But all I saw on Saturday was humble pie. I thought he was going to be a saviour for us. How wrong I was! None of what he says I saw any evidence of. The way folk are bleating it is like Sam has never lost a game in his life. But we lost and lost badly because of loads of mistakes in tactics.

He need to go.
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Can we assume that this is satire?

On @whufaninpeace's posts, they make a lot of sense. I was always surprised when Allardyce brought back Carroll, who I thought was not his choice but that of the owners, and sticking with Nolan was always a mistake. The latter was a great player in his day, but he's simply not sharp enough now for the PL.

Narraback said:
Great post but I don't believe the players we have will buy into Sam's philosophy. What we have at Sunderland is a combination of players which simply aren't good enough, and a poisonous core of unprofessional freeloaders who only turn up for a few games at the end of the season. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see us getting anywhere near 40 points this season. We've been flirting with relegation for far too long. Even the biggest, most stubborn turds flush eventually, and I think this maybe the season we go down. If we do then I hope we keep hold of Sam as I'm sure he'll get rid of the toxic and the useless, and rebuild as he did at West Ham.

Oh and @whufaninpeace will do me a favour please? Just tell every single West Ham fan you ever meet that there is no WEST HAM f***ing WAY!
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I always thought West Ham Way was a small street off the Mile End Road.

On your main point, Allardyce will have no truck with lazy and unprofessional players. If necessary, he will simply drop them - which will put any appearance money/bonuses out of reach - or ship them out on loan to lower league teams. His ego is much too big to put up with other big egos.
 
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whufaninpeace said:
It didn't let me post all of the post, so here is the rest:

The belief from the press and some opposition fans that we believe we are entitled to "free-flowing, perfect Lyall/Greenwood" football, or that we are entitled to the top 6/7 is way off. We just want to enjoy going to games, win or lose.

Okay now on to the part you guys probably actually care about.

Allardyce for Sunderland:
Pros: Fantastic appointment, hands down. You guys have the added advantage of appointing him before you went down, rather than after like we did. He will come in, analyze the squad, remove the bad eggs and the non-willing workers.

He will unite the squad, and they will love playing for him. He's a pragmatist, there is no doubt about that. He will target the winnable games, and most of the time make sure you win them. They won't be pretty, but he will get you points.

He will have you organized. You will improve greatly at defending and attacking set pieces, and your defenders will grow in confidence because of this. Winston Reid has transformed from a hopeless defender to one of the best in the leagues, and this is due to Allardyce almost entirely. James Tomkins also improved immeasurably under Allardyce's leadership.

I firmly believe that he will keep you up this season. He hasn't had the time he needs to fully implement his philosophy, but there were definitely signs of it vs West Brom. I think West Ham was a big learning experience for him, and he will have you guys playing nice stuff at times.

HE TAKES SH** FROM NO ONE! I love his attitude when it comes to certain things. My absolute highlights with him as manager from a non-playing standpoint are his Mourinho interviews, and his laughing at the diving cheat that is Chico Flores. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you youtube/google it, because it was hilarious. He will provide some moments like this for you, for sure!

He knows the importance of a derby match! Our record vs Spurs/Millwall was fantastic under him, and I'm sure he will place a lot of importance on the matches against the Mags, and ensure that your team is properly fired up for them! Our record vs Newcastle wasn't too bad either, despite the fact that Pardew has a good record against us in general. I also believe he now hates the Mags as much as you guys do.

I believe he will lay the building blocks for you guys to push on in 3-5 years time. From there it will be up to your owners to decide if you want to keep him, or to move on to another appointment.

Cons: I don't want you to think these are bitter comments, as overall I am completely happy with Allardyce and what he has done for our club. The obvious one first, it will not be pretty. When you win, it's no big deal. When you lose, there will be some games where you are truly depressed at what you just watched (I'm sure you guys are used to that at the moment, as we were back then). This won't bother you for the first year or two, as long as you stay up. Later down the line you will more than likely be asking for a change in style, but for now it will get results and that is what you need.

No plan B: There will be some games that are crying out for an impact sub, or a change in style (particularly against the teams with big centre backs ala Stoke, Soton, Chelsea, etc. who know how to suss out the long ball. This will not happen sadly, no matter how much you ask. There are sometimes where his persistence pays off though with a set piece goal.

His ego (pro/con): His self belief is part of the reason that he is such a successful manager. You have to have that belief in order to make it in his profession, but there are times where he takes it too far. It's never his fault, and he will constantly blame referees/other players/your fans for losses, rather than himself. He comes off as really arrogant, and there will be times where this upsets you. I wasn't sure whether to list this as a pro or con, as it's his greatest strength, as well as his worst enemy at times.

Overall, I think you have made a fine appointment, the best one you could make in fact! He will get you to love your team again, and he will turn around the whole belief in the club. Once again, I fully believe he will turn things around and keep you up. He will bring in a couple of decent players for you as well, and help you build on for the next few seasons. You guys have reason to be excited, for sure.

Once again, apologies for the lengthy post. I wish you all the best for the rest of the season, except when you play us of course. All the best!
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Thanks for this, now stop blowing f***ing bubbles at the match
 
LanguedocFox said:
Can we assume that this is satire?

On @whufaninpeace's posts, they make a lot of sense. I was always surprised when Allardyce brought back Carroll, who I thought was not his choice but that of the owners, and sticking with Nolan was always a mistake. The latter was a great player in his day, but he's simply not sharp enough now for the PL.



I always thought West Ham Way was a small street off the Mile End Road.

On your main point, Allardyce will have no truck with lazy and unprofessional players. If necessary, he will simply drop them - which will put any appearance money/bonuses out of reach - or ship them out on loan to lower league teams. His ego is much too big to put up with other big egos.
Click to expand...

Oh boy have we been needing a manager like that, PDC tried but was nuts, but Sam is the man we've all been waiting for, in this respect at least. It's a HUGE quality these days, and rare.


It's one of the reasons I've been optimistic. After reading the OP's excellent post, I'm even more optimistic now.
 
When I saw the thread title 'view from one more West Ham fan' I thought it was gonna be another picture from someone inside that meccano stadium they are moving into...
 
Mary Hinge said:
£2m a year, ferkin great job.......
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Is he only on £2m a year? I thought he'd be on more. Was well roumored to be pushing the £3m mark at WHU.

I'd do unspeakable things for only £2m a year mind.
 
ShieldsBlackCat2015 said:
I wish I could believe a word @whufaninpeace says. Sadly proof of the pudding is in the eating. But all I saw on Saturday was humble pie. I thought he was going to be a saviour for us. How wrong I was! None of what he says I saw any evidence of. The way folk are bleating it is like Sam has never lost a game in his life. But we lost and lost badly because of loads of mistakes in tactics.

He need to go.
Click to expand...
Needs to go after 1 game in charge :lol:
Even the Leicester fan is laughing at you.
 
Visiting Hammer said:
Is he only on £2m a year? I thought he'd be on more. Was well roumored to be pushing the £3m mark at WHU.

I'd do unspeakable things for only £2m a year mind.
Click to expand...

Ferk knaas he was on the dole wasn't he? Probably match the top earners so 3-4m plus the keepy uppy Brucey bonus....
 
whufaninpeace said:
It didn't let me post all of the post, so here is the rest:

The belief from the press and some opposition fans that we believe we are entitled to "free-flowing, perfect Lyall/Greenwood" football, or that we are entitled to the top 6/7 is way off. We just want to enjoy going to games, win or lose.

Okay now on to the part you guys probably actually care about.

Allardyce for Sunderland:
Pros: Fantastic appointment, hands down. You guys have the added advantage of appointing him before you went down, rather than after like we did. He will come in, analyze the squad, remove the bad eggs and the non-willing workers.

He will unite the squad, and they will love playing for him. He's a pragmatist, there is no doubt about that. He will target the winnable games, and most of the time make sure you win them. They won't be pretty, but he will get you points.

He will have you organized. You will improve greatly at defending and attacking set pieces, and your defenders will grow in confidence because of this. Winston Reid has transformed from a hopeless defender to one of the best in the leagues, and this is due to Allardyce almost entirely. James Tomkins also improved immeasurably under Allardyce's leadership.

I firmly believe that he will keep you up this season. He hasn't had the time he needs to fully implement his philosophy, but there were definitely signs of it vs West Brom. I think West Ham was a big learning experience for him, and he will have you guys playing nice stuff at times.

HE TAKES SH** FROM NO ONE! I love his attitude when it comes to certain things. My absolute highlights with him as manager from a non-playing standpoint are his Mourinho interviews, and his laughing at the diving cheat that is Chico Flores. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you youtube/google it, because it was hilarious. He will provide some moments like this for you, for sure!

He knows the importance of a derby match! Our record vs Spurs/Millwall was fantastic under him, and I'm sure he will place a lot of importance on the matches against the Mags, and ensure that your team is properly fired up for them! Our record vs Newcastle wasn't too bad either, despite the fact that Pardew has a good record against us in general. I also believe he now hates the Mags as much as you guys do.

I believe he will lay the building blocks for you guys to push on in 3-5 years time. From there it will be up to your owners to decide if you want to keep him, or to move on to another appointment.

Cons: I don't want you to think these are bitter comments, as overall I am completely happy with Allardyce and what he has done for our club. The obvious one first, it will not be pretty. When you win, it's no big deal. When you lose, there will be some games where you are truly depressed at what you just watched (I'm sure you guys are used to that at the moment, as we were back then). This won't bother you for the first year or two, as long as you stay up. Later down the line you will more than likely be asking for a change in style, but for now it will get results and that is what you need.

No plan B: There will be some games that are crying out for an impact sub, or a change in style (particularly against the teams with big centre backs ala Stoke, Soton, Chelsea, etc. who know how to suss out the long ball. This will not happen sadly, no matter how much you ask. There are sometimes where his persistence pays off though with a set piece goal.

His ego (pro/con): His self belief is part of the reason that he is such a successful manager. You have to have that belief in order to make it in his profession, but there are times where he takes it too far. It's never his fault, and he will constantly blame referees/other players/your fans for losses, rather than himself. He comes off as really arrogant, and there will be times where this upsets you. I wasn't sure whether to list this as a pro or con, as it's his greatest strength, as well as his worst enemy at times.

Overall, I think you have made a fine appointment, the best one you could make in fact! He will get you to love your team again, and he will turn around the whole belief in the club. Once again, I fully believe he will turn things around and keep you up. He will bring in a couple of decent players for you as well, and help you build on for the next few seasons. You guys have reason to be excited, for sure.

Once again, apologies for the lengthy post. I wish you all the best for the rest of the season, except when you play us of course. All the best!
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Superb posts. Many thanks for putting this up. You confirm what I thought about BS and...once again......confirm how knowledgeable/warm-hearted WHU fans are. As you say all the best to you too...except when we play you for the last time at the Boleyn that is.

:cool:
 
Why don't you change your name to just " Shields" ?

I cant for the life of me see why you think of yourself as a Black Cat. You sound like Marvin the robot from Hitchhikers Guide
 
GOLDENOLDIE said:
ShieldsBlackCat2015------ Why don't you change your name to just " Shields" ? I cant for the life of me see why you think of yourself as a Black Cat. You sound like Marvin the robot from Hitchhikers Guide
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Please ignore my previous post . I messed it up ( embarrassed cough).

THIS is how it should have been ^
 
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