Ellis Short

[Horden Mackem]

I don't think he looks to finish 17th necessarily, but we are in a difficult position now. Wage budget at its limit, making big losses so little to invest, virtually no saleable assets.
I accept short has to take his share of blame for the decisions made but he must be fuming. How would you feel if that shit had cost you £150m.

Employ people like Di Fanti and what do you expect? We give some ex agent the role of signing all of our players? I genuinely dont know the answer, but had he ever had that role in the past?

I mean there are obvious exceptions. He cant exactly be blamed for MON blowing pretty much 20 million on graham and fletcher.

 

[JimmyQuinn]

Employ people like Di Fanti and what do you expect? We give some ex agent the role of signing all of our players? I genuinely dont know the answer, but had he ever had that role in the past?

I mean there are obvious exceptions. He cant exactly be blamed for MON blowing pretty much 20 million on graham and fletcher.

Perhaps not Fletcher but letting him chuck £5m at Graham, in a season where we'd been largely poor, then sacking him within two months certainly makes you wonder.

 

[sksk3021]

Perhaps not Fletcher but letting him chuck £5m at Graham, in a season where we'd been largely poor, then sacking him within two months certainly makes you wonder.

But on the flip side what do you do? Not let the manager sign players he wants then sack him?
Appoint someone who signs good players would be a start.

 

[SirSidneyRuffDiamond]

Surely if we go down we need to put all our efforts into getting back up and scouting for players who may possibly make the transition from Championship to Premier League, so that we don't have to discard a whole squad of players again.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Freudian slip?

Yes indeed, or auto correct.

 

[Lonz]

We've had continued Premier League football for 8 seasons - which dates back to before Ellis Short's time anywhere near the football club - but it's been absolutely awful stuff for almost all of his time here. There has been no progression on the field under Ellis Short - we are worse than when he got here - and saddled with a lot more debt. I've been supporting SAFC for 40 years, and the last three seasons have been the most consistently dull, joyless football I have witnessed in that time. It hasn't even worked as a business model because we are still making a bloody loss.

He's tried setting up the club to be financially sustainable? You reckon that is a positive when he has completely failed to achieve that?

You're completely missing the point on managers. We have appointed experienced English managers with a track record of solid midtable Premier League finishes. We have appointed experienced managers with outstanding CVs, who have won stacks of trophies. We have appointed an Italian lunatic. We have appointed an up and coming coach. We have appointed an experienced manager who has won stacks of trophies, managed all over the world, and got to the Quarter Finals of the World Cup. And every one of them has failed. So at what point does the penny drop that the problem is not the managers, it runs far deeper than that - and Ellis Short, and his f***ing shite appointments, are the problem?

I've no idea who wants to buy a Premier League club, none at all. That's not my problem. I just know that Ellis Short has been terrible for this club - first of all wasting an opportunity to build on what we had, and now it's going to get far worse before it gets better when the basket case of a football team gets relegated, and then we'll see how committed to the club the Texan hedge fund billionaire with no connections to football or the area is.

I really don't know where to start with this? I don't think you've really thought about the bigger picture at all.

The managers as described above with great track records haven't been given the time to fix any problems we have. I've got a longer memory than most and can remember some pretty good times here as a Sunderland fan. We seem to bank what we have already and demand more and more and more otherwise the owner is a "cancer"? Mental. O'Neill had a good track record but was allowed to spend daft amounts of money to buy average players. Players we're still paying off now. Pulling the plug on a manager isn't the end of it. You have to sell or wait for a player's contract to run down to nil.

"Not my problem" to think of some other arrangement but happy to complain when things aren't going our way? Interesting - sounds like you're just after a whinge. Football isn't like running a normal business. There aren't leagues or points in business. You just have to do better than the rest of them to progress. You could stand still and go backwards, and you could also stand still and go forwards relatively to everyone else. You only have to look up the road at Newcastle to see how bad things could be, when the grass isn't always greener. It really does sound like you don't know who or what else to blame so you're going to the very top without thinking about everything in between. It's really easy to say the owner is responsible... he is.. but unless you're pragmatic about it then we WILL end up going backwards.

Don't confuse me with a happy clapper or anything. I'm as sick of what I'm seeing as the next person. I also try to look at the bigger picture and try to think of how we can progress beyond our peers sustainably so that we're not just going to be struggling year after year. Shout at Short isn't really the answer is it?

For the past three we've eeked out survival, just barely.....based on the insane idea that repeatedly sacking managers is a good way to run a football club as it does enough to keep the tv money rolling in. People keep trying to spin it as 8 wonderful years of stability.

I totally agree about the new manager every season. I think that's been his biggest mistake.

 

[Deleted member 26022]

WARNING - We are going to get a lot of these type of threads in the coming weeks.

They will randomly lash out at Short, Byrne, Congerton and no doubt even Advocatt who will at some point be described as clueless, I guarantee it.

They generally contain no explanation, and very few actual facts.

'Rotten to the core' may be posted many times.

there is something up, zidane and has been for sometime its clear to see, surely you don't think everything is rosey in the garden ?

 

[Zidane]

there is something up, zidane and has been for sometime its clear to see, surely you don't think everything is rosey in the garden ?

No I dont but I don't think everything is Margaret Byrne and Ellis Shorts fault either

In my opinion clubs like ours go up and down and it's incredibly difficult to keep a North East club as an ever present in the top division. Its harder to get players to come North and you pay for the privilege. We are not the richest club in the land so it cripples us. Introduce some cut backs to attempt to make us profitable and low and behold we struggle.

Doesn't mean that we are rotten to the core just because we are struggling to get quality to come North consistently. Relegation does not mean a club is rotten to the core. 85 of the 92 do or would struggle to stay in the Premier league, some never get in there, some briefly get there, others are about 50/50 likes us.

People need to get a grip. If it's our time then it's our time.

I repeat it's incredibly difficult for a club like Sunderland to stay in Premier league year after year.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Mag-like reaction this.

what do you reckon now?

 

[gipetto]

I really don't know where to start with this? I don't think you've really thought about the bigger picture at all.

The managers as described above with great track records haven't been given the time to fix any problems we have. I've got a longer memory than most and can remember some pretty good times here as a Sunderland fan. We seem to bank what we have already and demand more and more and more otherwise the owner is a "cancer"? Mental. O'Neill had a good track record but was allowed to spend daft amounts of money to buy average players. Players we're still paying off now. Pulling the plug on a manager isn't the end of it. You have to sell or wait for a player's contract to run down to nil.

"Not my problem" to think of some other arrangement but happy to complain when things aren't going our way? Interesting - sounds like you're just after a whinge. Football isn't like running a normal business. There aren't leagues or points in business. You just have to do better than the rest of them to progress. You could stand still and go backwards, and you could also stand still and go forwards relatively to everyone else. You only have to look up the road at Newcastle to see how bad things could be, when the grass isn't always greener. It really does sound like you don't know who or what else to blame so you're going to the very top without thinking about everything in between. It's really easy to say the owner is responsible... he is.. but unless you're pragmatic about it then we WILL end up going backwards.

Don't confuse me with a happy clapper or anything. I'm as sick of what I'm seeing as the next person. I also try to look at the bigger picture and try to think of how we can progress beyond our peers sustainably so that we're not just going to be struggling year after year. Shout at Short isn't really the answer is it?


I totally agree about the new manager every season. I think that's been his biggest mistake.

So please tell me. What exactly is Short offering us? I can't understand why you would defend him so strongly.

 

[doon toon]

Staggering the lack of flak he gets.

Club is rotten from top to bottom

Looks like you were spot on with this comment

 

[The Omega Man]

No I dont but I don't think everything is Margaret Byrne and Ellis Shorts fault either

In my opinion clubs like ours go up and down and it's incredibly difficult to keep a North East club as an ever present in the top division. Its harder to get players to come North and you pay for the privilege. We are not the richest club in the land so it cripples us. Introduce some cut backs to attempt to make us profitable and low and behold we struggle.

Doesn't mean that we are rotten to the core just because we are struggling to get quality to come North consistently. Relegation does not mean a club is rotten to the core. 85 of the 92 do or would struggle to stay in the Premier league, some never get in there, some briefly get there, others are about 50/50 likes us.

People need to get a grip. If it's our time then it's our time.

I repeat it's incredibly difficult for a club like Sunderland to stay in Premier league year after year.

Excuse making of the highest order.

 

[mart]

what do you reckon now?

Still piled more money into the club than anyone else. You are still a tit.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Still piled more money into the club than anyone else. You are still a tit.

taken plenty out as well

 

[Zidane]

Excuse making of the highest order.

Just ignore the facts then.

47 different clubs have been in premier League.
7 ever present in premier league.

Get a grip. Nothing last forever. I want to stay up but evidence suggests we WILL go down eventually.

It really would take Man City levels of investment to make us (and 88 other teams) a force to be reckoned with.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Just ignore the facts then.

nobody is ignoring them which is why we're all pissed off at the clowns killing our club

 

[The Omega Man]

Just ignore the facts then.

47 different clubs have been in premier League.
7 ever present in premier league.

Get a grip. Nothing last forever. I want to stay up but evidence suggests we WILL go down eventually.

It really would take Man City levels of investment to make us (and 88 other teams) a force to be reckoned with.

We've had loads of good players up here and sold the lot,replacing them with inferior shite that we've paid a gold pig for in wages. the club is simply chronically run. the decision making is woeful.

I suggest its you who should "get a grip".

 

[Zidane]

nobody is ignoring them which is why we're all pissed off at the clowns killing our club

What I'm trying to say is who says they are clowns?

What if given that 47 clubs have graced premier league and only 7 are ever present the reality is we should have gone down 3 years ago.

But the club have over stretched themselves staying up longer?

Would you prefer we went down 3 years ago and we are having this conversation from championship and financially we have just about recovered ready for a promotion push this season or we have overstretched themselves and we stand here today absolutely at the financial limit in the premier league?

Cos that's the reality.

We've had loads of good players up here and sold the lot,replacing them with inferior shite that we've paid a gold pig for in wages. the club is simply chronically run. the decision making is woeful.

I suggest its you who should "get a grip".

The top and bottom of it is we just don't know. We are having these discussions as we just don't have the facts.

We are all frustrated it's come to this but ultimately we know very little.

So all we can do is offer opinion and argue about it.

 

[mart]

taken plenty out as well

Absolute bollocks and you know it.

 

[Randy Ostrich]

what do you reckon now?

You posted this thread after Palace at home whed. Maggy minge meltdown.

And for the record, I do think we're hamstrung by our financial position. It's not as simple as Short waving a blank cheque. If it was he'd have done it by now. It will take something a but creative to give us some wiggle room. Whether that's cancelling contracts (call it a 'loyalty payment' rather than wages) or getting Short himself to sponsor something.