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The battle of bath lane

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PISTON said:
If it came from original official sources then i'd be more likely to believe it. People fall into the danger of believing those websites with the fancy data sheets were filled in at the time which is obviously bollocks. They were probably filled in by students on minimum wage who had to log in thousands of bits of data for every club for over a century, many of the sources were dubious to start with.
Just like wikipedia is updated by individuals they can often get things wrong or deliberately update duff info for a laugh.

I once wikipedia'd two quite famous ex team mates. Their careers were both listed in what you'd think would be forensic detail and much of it was. All apart from the team we played in together was completely missed out for both of them. There were even player stats for a different team in the seasons they played with me. All completely wrong, but if you didn't know you'd believe it to be true, all the pages were lovely colours etc.
As i said, any information on the internet is only as good as the source and the people who updated it.
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So the Football League Book from 1986 is wrong and the SAFC booklet from 1984 explaining why the gate was so low due to the cup final being played on the same day (which it was 29.4.1933) is also wrong?

You'll be telling me next we won 2-0 at Southampton last week?
 
bmp1970 said:
So the Football League Book from 1986 is wrong and the SAFC booklet from 1984 explaining why the gate was so low due to the cup final being played on the same day (which it was 29.4.1933) is also wrong?

You'll be telling me next we won 2-0 at Southampton last week?
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It was 3-0, Altidore hat trick.
 
JTF said:
Wrong on both counts.

The election was on May 3rd and the Wrexham game on the 8th was a normal mid-week evening KO time.
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We had some poor attendances in an era where football generally wasn't well supported, we averaged around 14 - 16 thousand which was pretty good. The real reason for the Wrexham attendances was that both were mid week, we were shite and were up against a shite side who didn't bring any away following worth mentioning. The first game should never have started because of the rain. My older brother was at both games.

The rearranged game was our 3rd home game in 7 days, it was played after the Season had ended for all other clubs in the Football League and it pissed down again. I'm surprised over 7,000 turned up for what was a completely meaningless game. I was at the Brighton game and can't say I noticed any Sunderland supporters.
 
Friendly Fire said:
We had some poor attendances in an era where football generally wasn't well supported, we averaged around 14 - 16 thousand which was pretty good. The real reason for the Wrexham attendances was that both were mid week, we were shite and were up against a shite side who didn't bring any away following worth mentioning. The first game should never have started because of the rain. My older brother was at both games.

The rearranged game was our 3rd home game in 7 days, it was played after the Season had ended for all other clubs in the Football League and it pissed down again. I'm surprised over 7,000 turned up for what was a completely meaningless game. I was at the Brighton game and can't say I noticed any Sunderland supporters.
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We actually averaged 25k in the relegation season and 21k the following one (Wrexham season).
 
bmp1970 said:
Portsmouth at home 29/4/1933 at home

First Division

Same day as the cup final which everyone (almost) stayed at home to listen to it on the wireless..

3,911
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New rule; Post War only.
 
Friendly Fire said:
We had some poor attendances in an era where football generally wasn't well supported, we averaged around 14 - 16 thousand which was pretty good. The real reason for the Wrexham attendances was that both were mid week, we were shite and were up against a shite side who didn't bring any away following worth mentioning. The first game should never have started because of the rain. My older brother was at both games.

The rearranged game was our 3rd home game in 7 days, it was played after the Season had ended for all other clubs in the Football League and it pissed down again. I'm surprised over 7,000 turned up for what was a completely meaningless game. I was at the Brighton game and can't say I noticed any Sunderland supporters.
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Yes, of course, there are reasons for every attendance - good, bad or indifferent - at every club. You have provided some reasons to try to help to put those particularly low attendances into some sort of context. I could do the same to put any Sunderland attendances that nufc supporters perceive to be low into context.

However, in my experience, the majority of nufc fans seem to prefer to communicate in propaganda (Reggie unwittingly provided us with a good example of this) and have a tendency to rewrite history conveniently changing and/or ignoring facts, context and reasons that don't fit in with that propaganda.

Much of what I have posted during this thread is to counter some of that propaganda.

The comment about the nufc v brighton game was a reference to commentator Ken Wolstenholme's comment near the start of the video I posted earlier...

reginald_molehusband said:
We actually averaged 25k in the relegation season and 21k the following one (Wrexham season).
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Er, yeah, and your point being what?

That nufc attendances weren't always as low as they were in the second half of the 78-79 season? I never suggested they were.

That the average attendance in the nufc 77-78 relegation season of 24,729 is proof of the loyalty of nufc fans? The SAFC average attendance in the 76-77 relegation season was 32,743.
 
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JTF said:
Yes, of course, there are reasons for every attendance - good, bad or indifferent - at every club. You have provided some reasons to try to help to put those particularly low attendances into some sort of context. I could do the same to put any Sunderland attendances that nufc supporters perceive to be low into context.

However, in my experience, the majority of nufc fans seem to prefer to communicate in propaganda (Reggie unwittingly provided us with a good example of this) and have a tendency to rewrite history conveniently changing and/or ignoring facts, context and reasons that don't fit in with that propaganda.

Much of what I have posted during this thread is to counter some of that propaganda.

The comment about the nufc v brighton game was a reference to commentator Ken Wolstenholme's comment near the start of the video I posted earlier...



Er, yeah, and your point being what?

That nufc attendances weren't always as low as they were in the second half of the 78-79 season? I never suggested they were.

That the average attendance in the nufc 77-78 relegation season of 24,729 is proof of the loyalty of nufc fans? The SAFC average attendance in the 76-77 relegation season was 32,743.
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I wasn't actually replying to you, it was to the lad saying our average was 13-14k.


Also a bit rich to accuse us of propaganda, given the way Piston had reacted to the top flight record being well and truly smashed.
 
reginald_molehusband said:
I wasn't actually replying to you, it was to the lad saying our average was 13-14k.

Also a bit rich to accuse us of propaganda, given the way Piston had reacted to the top flight record being well and truly smashed.
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He actually says "14 - 16 thousand" which is what nufc did generally attract in the 79-82 period when they were in the 2nd division and not looking like promotion contenders. Which is why I queried you quoting the average attendance in your 77-78 1st division season, which didn't seem to have any relevance to the period he appeared to be referring to.

As for the propaganda, in my experience SAFC fans are in general far more honest and willing to simply tell it how it is than the majority of nufc fans who seem to have a bizarre compulsion to spout propaganda and make no attempt to keep it real.

The 'Battle of Bath Lane' is a typical example of this. In this thread both Mackemindo and jcrossan provide honest, truthful accounts of what they saw. They make no attempt to distort the facts to fit any particular agenda.

Compare this to nufc fans who I've spoken to over many years about this (and also those on the internet). In almost all cases, they go for one of two extremes. Either they play it down/deny it altogether or they go for the "It was a massacre. The mackems got massacred." party line. Neither of which are accurate.

reginald_molehusband said:
We actually averaged 25k in the relegation season and 21k the following one (Wrexham season).
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The nufc average attendance in their relegation season of 77-78 was 24,729.
The SAFC average attendance in their relegation season of 76-77 was 32,743.

The nufc average attendance in their first season back in the 2nd division in 78-79 was 20,494.
The SAFC average attendance in their first season back in the 2nd division in 77-78 was 22,276.
 
Can I be the first to say on this thread, who gives a fuck? Reminiscing fondly over violence? Seriously?

Some people need to take a look at themselves. My cousin got beaten up in London [not a lads supporter] minding his own business by a group of West Ham hooligans. Yeah, he thought it was great having his jaw wired for three months, blood trauma under his skin all over his back and arms and losing his job at the time.

f***ing idiots. Nothing to be proud of.
 
two left feet said:
Can I be the first to say on this thread, who gives a fuck? Reminiscing fondly over violence? Seriously?

Some people need to take a look at themselves. My cousin got beaten up in London [not a lads supporter] minding his own business by a group of West Ham hooligans. Yeah, he thought it was great having his jaw wired for three months, blood trauma under his skin all over his back and arms and losing his job at the time.

f***ing idiots. Nothing to be proud of.
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What the f***ing idiots forget is that the other f***ing idiots they fight with might then go out and seek revenge on anybody they happen to find, who wasn't interested in their fight in the first place. And clearly do. A schoolmate's brother was also beaten up by Birmingham thugs resulting in a lengthy hospital stay.

I hope your cousin makes (or made?) a full recovery and they caught the f***ing idiots, but of course psychologically the harm is never fully healed.

Can I also ask, could the SMB hierarchy please state their policy on threads which glorify football violence, given that a lot of other stuff isn't allowed?

It is almost 2015 and really it reflects badly on the club and its supporters.
 
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reginald_molehusband said:
Nope, just none of my chums talk like Danny Dyer.
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Bit late in the day to suddenly be playing that card, isn't it? I think the clue was in the title.

Violence was a fact of life when attending derby games, particularly in the 68-81 period. I do agree, however, that occasionally some posters can come close to crossing the line between recounting experiences and glorifying violence in threads like these.

I am, however, pleased to hear that you and your chums have never been interested in such unpleasantness. In my experience, you would seem to be in the minority though. I have met plenty of nufc supporting half-wits over the years who appear to like nothing better than to revel in what appear to be wildly exaggerated (and quite possibly apocryphal) tales of assaulting Sunderland fans...
 
JTF said:
Violence was a fact of life when attending derby games, particularly in the 68-81 period. I do agree, however, that occasionally some posters can come close to crossing the line between recounting experiences and glorifying violence in threads like these.
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This thread is not recounting a fact of life, it is glorifying and celebrating it.

Embarrassing for this board in my opinion.

Let idiots on other boards portray themselves as such. We should be setting a better example, typified by doing things like raising money for the chaps that died on the Malaysian Airlines Flight.

Rivalry is fine; cannot stand the Mags myself but banter is where it should start and stop.
 
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