paul downtown. sack pietersen for being detached

[Mrjardine]

Fair point mate especially about Warne/Buchanan,just too many instances with KP me think,seems to fall out with everyone,as I say as far as I can recall cannot remember any players sending texts slagging off their own captain to the opposition no excuse for that,if was not as good a player as he is would probably have been dropped then.

His talent is beyond question I agree with you on that.

Like I say KP is obviously no angel and if he was an ordinary player he would have been kicked to the kerb long ago however he is a special talent and sometimes you have to just embrace that warts and all.
Cricket is predominantly an individual sport played in team form so if I'm captain and he's performing he could detest the very ground I walk on for all I cared
A broader point what the ECB are missing is that it seems the majority of fans who pay their money in good faith still want to see KP and on ability alone 100% of cricket followers would say he should still be in the side.Paying public once again getting short changed which happens all too frequently in my opinion.

 

[Struts]

Well if your bored of him who actually excites you at present? When things are going wrong disinterest seems to be a common thing to aim at individuals.The lads knee was an issue in Australia which would have impacted on his performance and frustration can sometimes lead to lethargy.
To me difficult personalities need to be managed if they are as good as KP and I don't think cook as good a player as he is is cut out for the job to be honest.
If Vaughan was still captain I believe KP would still be in the side.

Nothing more finer than watching Cook when he gets his eye in, simply sublime. Also enjoyed watching newer players like Gurney (even if he was a bit expensive) and Jordan play yesterday.

Bored of KP? What are your opinions on Cook, Root, Bell etc?

I think people also forget that he was our top run scorer in Australia

They're all great to watch but the inconsistencies and ability to get out to playing tame shots from tame deliveries are enough to drive anyone up the wall.

 

[Mrjardine]

Nothing more finer than watching Cook when he gets his eye in, simply sublime. Also enjoyed watching newer players like Gurney (even if he was a bit expensive) and Jordan play yesterday.

They're all great to watch but the inconsistencies and ability to get out to playing tame shots from tame deliveries are enough to drive anyone up the wall.

Cook is a top player no getting away from that but he couldn't do what KP did to the South African attack couple of summers back.
You just watch Surrey put a couple of thousand on there gates because of him in the T/20.

 

[Fulwell Mackem]

Cook is a top player no getting away from that but he couldn't do what KP did to the South African attack couple of summers back.
You just watch Surrey put a couple of thousand on there gates because of him in the T/20.

He is the one player we have that can take the game away from the opponents in a session.

He will always frustrate because of the nature of his game but he has enough runs and match winning performances to justify it.

If Pietersen was playing yesterday I'd have been more inclined to pay the £60 and I wouldn't have been the only one.

 

[stephen cartwright]

thanks all. better than the press, an extremely good read

 

[Struts]

Cook is a top player no getting away from that but he couldn't do what KP did to the South African attack couple of summers back.
You just watch Surrey put a couple of thousand on there gates because of him in the T/20.

Don't doubt that will happen. Sadly that's what the county game is becoming.

 

[stephen cartwright]

friday night surrey are on sky and it would be classic kp, to produce a big score, just a couple of days after england play

 

[Mrjardine]

Don't doubt that will happen. Sadly that's what the county game is becoming.

But surely bums on seats is what it's all about? A poor start to this summer could see a drop in test match attendances too and the KP factor could play a part in that.
All the cricket boards and ICC need to get together and find some common ground on which route the sport is taking. The rigid approach to test matches in regards to bad light when flood lights are in place is nothing short of scandolous and will naturally have spectators questioning the wisdom of parting with their hard earned when they could be robbed of a natural conclusion that could easily be avoided.
I'm at a loss as what can be done in the county 4 day game to make it more consumer friendly to be honest.Always amazes me how the derbyshires, Gloucester etc manage to function without the added bonus of international cricket on there respective grounds.

He is the one player we have that can take the game away from the opponents in a session.

He will always frustrate because of the nature of his game but he has enough runs and match winning performances to justify it.

If Pietersen was playing yesterday I'd have been more inclined to pay the £60 and I wouldn't have been the only one.

You and many more alike I would imagine. It's so typically English to
cut adrift a player who can be a bit of a handful rather than actually just manage him!
I believe in Australia a term that would describe KP is "larrikin" and how many times have we heard that attributed to one of there lot?
Does anybody actually believe if KP had been an Aussie he'd have been banished from the ranks?

friday night surrey are on sky and it would be classic kp, to produce a big score, just a couple of days after england play

Hel certainly be bang up for it that's for sure.

 

[Struts]

But surely bums on seats is what it's all about? A poor start to this summer could see a drop in test match attendances too and the KP factor could play a part in that.
All the cricket boards and ICC need to get together and find some common ground on which route the sport is taking. The rigid approach to test matches in regards to bad light when flood lights are in place is nothing short of scandolous and will naturally have spectators questioning the wisdom of parting with their hard earned when they could be robbed of a natural conclusion that could easily be avoided.
I'm at a loss as what can be done in the county 4 day game to make it more consumer friendly to be honest.Always amazes me how the derbyshires, Gloucester etc manage to function without the added bonus of international cricket on there respective grounds.

This!

What i would do to make the Championship more consumer friendly is: Introduce Day/Night matches, buy one day and get another day for half price, let people in for free on the 4th day and play more matches over weekends.

 

[Mrjardine]

This!

What i would do to make the Championship more consumer friendly is: Introduce Day/Night matches, buy one day and get another day for half price, let people in for free on the 4th day and play more matches over weekends.

Decent suggestions actually.Think they have tried to do the weekend thing this season with championship games mind.
It's such a shame the blazers never seem to think outside the box rather than just bumbling (no offence mr Lloyd) along.

 

[Aidan11]

Ian Botham would never had sent texts to the opposition no matter how pissed off he was,he was above all a team player not sure same can be said of KP.

Would you consider that a bigger crime than Beefy's charge sheet -

Fight in a bar with the opposition captain
involved in allegations in drug-taking
involved in an alleged sex scandal
convicted for common assualt

KP was stupid to send those texts but England cricketers have done worse things.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Would you consider that a bigger crime than Beefy's charge sheet -

Fight in a bar with the opposition captain
involved in allegations in drug-taking
involved in an alleged sex scandal
convicted for common assualt

KP was stupid to send those texts but England cricketers have done worse things.

Can't see how you can compare tbh,as none of those underminded the captain,me personally I care about the team ethic,the things you mention that Botham did not involve his team mates as far as I am aware,he totally made Strauss look undermined with them texts.

Just think fell out with Nottinghamshire,then Moores,then the text saga,too many instances of not getting on with team mates and coaches for my liking.

Of course Botham no angel but his crimes although not defendable were different.

Agree to a certain point when somebody is good at any sport you tend to give them a bit more leway,but with KP it just seems one after the other ,at what point to you say enough is enough.

But surely bums on seats is what it's all about? A poor start to this summer could see a drop in test match attendances too and the KP factor could play a part in that.
All the cricket boards and ICC need to get together and find some common ground on which route the sport is taking. The rigid approach to test matches in regards to bad light when flood lights are in place is nothing short of scandolous and will naturally have spectators questioning the wisdom of parting with their hard earned when they could be robbed of a natural conclusion that could easily be avoided.
I'm at a loss as what can be done in the county 4 day game to make it more consumer friendly to be honest.Always amazes me how the derbyshires, Gloucester etc manage to function without the added bonus of international cricket on there respective grounds.




You and many more alike I would imagine. It's so typically English to
cut adrift a player who can be a bit of a handful rather than actually just manage him!
I believe in Australia a term that would describe KP is "larrikin" and how many times have we heard that attributed to one of there lot?
Does anybody actually believe if KP had been an Aussie he'd have been banished from the ranks?


Hel certainly be bang up for it that's for sure.

Andrew Symonds an example of a talented Aussie where authorities had enough

 

[Mrjardine]

Can't see how you can compare tbh,as none of those underminded the captain,me personally I care about the team ethic,the things you mention that Botham did not involve his team mates as far as I am aware,he totally made Strauss look undermined with them texts.

Just think fell out with Nottinghamshire,then Moores,then the text saga,too many instances of not getting on with team mates and coaches for my liking.

Of course Botham no angel but his crimes although not defendable were different.

Agree to a certain point when somebody is good at any sport you tend to give them a bit more leway,but with KP it just seems one after the other ,at what point to you say enough is enough.



Andrew Symonds an example of a talented Aussie where authorities had enough

Symonds was talented but he was certainly no KP and easily replaced.Pietersen is our leading run scorer across all formats and I'd imagine would be in any all time England XI that was picked.
Vaughan is quoted as saying I don't see what is so unmanageable about Pietersen and I think a strong leader would have been able to deal with him.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Symonds was talented but he was certainly no KP and easily replaced.Pietersen is our leading run scorer across all formats and I'd imagine would be in any all time England XI that was picked.
Vaughan is quoted as saying I don't see what is so unmanageable about Pietersen and I think a strong leader would have been able to deal with him.

Yeah as i said KP is very talented that is beyond question,therefore you would think any England captain would want him in their side.

Guess you could look at a few ways,Cook like any England captain is under immense pressure to succeed so therefore there is no doubt that any captain would want his best batsman playing for him to help him do that

Cook clearly does not want KP playing,therefore on the face of it having a weaker side.

Why would Cook want to put himself at such a big disadvantage?

I don't know what the answer is but only conclusion is they must be well pissed off with him,to purposely hamper their chances.

 

[stephen cartwright]

is there going to be a time, this summer, where cook is no longer captain? he has been in a long run of poor form, in both tests and odis now.

turning into brearley batting wise and he is not an inspirational captain to fall back to

 

[Voice of fair play]

is there going to be a time, this summer, where cook is no longer captain? he has been in a long run of poor form, in both tests and odis now.

turning into brearley batting wise and he is not an inspirational captain to fall back to

Too negative a captain for me,the Aussies whether will liked it or not played aggressive cricket scoring quickly and attacking the opposition with their bowling.

Out tactics were too negative.

 

[Mrjardine]

Yeah as i said KP is very talented that is beyond question,therefore you would think any England captain would want him in their side.

Guess you could look at a few ways,Cook like any England captain is under immense pressure to succeed so therefore there is no doubt that any captain would want his best batsman playing for him to help him do that

Cook clearly does not want KP playing,therefore on the face of it having a weaker side.

Why would Cook want to put himself at such a big disadvantage?

I don't know what the answer is but only conclusion is they must be well pissed off with him,to purposely hamper their chances.

Very good points raised as ever.
The rumours at the time seemed to suggest that KP had opened his mouth in the dressing room thus undermining Cook. I can imagine this to be the case as you will know yaself having played that when things aren't going well, the dressing room can be a heated place and given KP isn't the most popular member of side for what seems a variety of reasons his words could well have been frowned upon more than most.
I just don't buy downtons theory that Pietersen was distant and disinterested I'm afraid. His ego would not allow him to go out on the big stage and not be bothered about scoring runs. His comment about KP saying it's the way he plays (something which he has said on a number of occasions) doesn't sit right either as that way has brought a lot of success to the England side and a lot of enjoyment to the spectators down the years as well as more international runs than any other English cricketer to date.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions in this sorry saga and to me both the ECB and Pietersen need to be a little more transparent than has been the case. As I've touched on earlier in this debate like most things it's the paying public who will suffer at not having the pleasure of watching their marquee player this summer and we deserve some proper answers, not all this fudging, as to why.

 

[stephen cartwright]

it was mentioned the other day, that the gagging orders agreed on pietersens departure are lifted in october. that is when the fun will really start.

i think the appointment of moores was made partly for his fallout with kp and they hoped pietersen would announce his retirement. it would not surprise me if overseas candidates, wanted pietersen in the squad.

as far as i am aware pietersen has not announced his retirement from international cricket.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Very good points raised as ever.
The rumours at the time seemed to suggest that KP had opened his mouth in the dressing room thus undermining Cook. I can imagine this to be the case as you will know yaself having played that when things aren't going well, the dressing room can be a heated place and given KP isn't the most popular member of side for what seems a variety of reasons his words could well have been frowned upon more than most.
I just don't buy downtons theory that Pietersen was distant and disinterested I'm afraid. His ego would not allow him to go out on the big stage and not be bothered about scoring runs. His comment about KP saying it's the way he plays (something which he has said on a number of occasions) doesn't sit right either as that way has brought a lot of success to the England side and a lot of enjoyment to the spectators down the years as well as more international runs than any other English cricketer to date.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions in this sorry saga and to me both the ECB and Pietersen need to be a little more transparent than has been the case. As I've touched on earlier in this debate like most things it's the paying public who will suffer at not having the pleasure of watching their marquee player this summer and we deserve some proper answers, not all this fudging, as to why.

Yeah could not agree more,needs to be more transparent, because he we are having a debate about the rights and wrongs of it when we are both in the dark about what has really happened.

Like you say cricket fans deserve better.

 

[SAFC11]

Very good points raised as ever.
The rumours at the time seemed to suggest that KP had opened his mouth in the dressing room thus undermining Cook. I can imagine this to be the case as you will know yaself having played that when things aren't going well, the dressing room can be a heated place and given KP isn't the most popular member of side for what seems a variety of reasons his words could well have been frowned upon more than most.
I just don't buy downtons theory that Pietersen was distant and disinterested I'm afraid. His ego would not allow him to go out on the big stage and not be bothered about scoring runs. His comment about KP saying it's the way he plays (something which he has said on a number of occasions) doesn't sit right either as that way has brought a lot of success to the England side and a lot of enjoyment to the spectators down the years as well as more international runs than any other English cricketer to date.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions in this sorry saga and to me both the ECB and Pietersen need to be a little more transparent than has been the case. As I've touched on earlier in this debate like most things it's the paying public who will suffer at not having the pleasure of watching their marquee player this summer and we deserve some proper answers, not all this fudging, as to why.

If i remember correctly, he was often seen trying to help bowlers with their batting through the Ashes series. He surely wouldnt do that if he was disinterested.

You can compare how Australia handled Warner over the past year, and realised they are a better side for having him in despite his blatant issues.