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Monty Panesar

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rentaghost said:
England will drop a seamer but possibly play a batsman such as Bopara or Stokes that can bowl some decent overs I reckon.
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Are Bopara and Stokes that much better at bowling a few overs of seam up than some from say Trott & Bell?

(I'm asking not telling btw)
 

chelt_mackem said:
I'm not sure why they seem intent on any 2nd spinner being a number 7 as well. It massively restricts our choices. If we do go for 2 spinners for the winter (and I think we should) IMHO the best option for the line up would be, drop Morgan, 6. Prior, 7. Broad, 8. Swann, 9, Tremlett, 10. Anderson, 11. Monty.

One possible change to that selection might be Bresnan for Tremlett as I feel he might be more effective on sub continent wickets, but that's a debate for another thread at another time.
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Its a fair enough opinion to have but its not really in Flower's make up and I think he feels its important for Broad and Swann to have the freedom to bat withoiut inhibitions that 8 or 9 gives them. I still think he will repalce Morgan with a Stokes or Bopara type and drop a seamer for a spinner.

Not all test matches in India are dustbowls and they may even just stick with the normal team.

Mackem DJ said:
Are Bopara and Stokes that much better at bowling a few overs of seam up than some from say Trott & Bell?

(I'm asking not telling btw)
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I think if you are only going in with 2 front line seamers then yes. You might only get a few overs but they can bowl with a bit of zip (certainly Stokes can) and reverse swing which you need in India.
 
i used to think monty was going to be top drawer but he went off the boil. suppose the fact we bat all the way down now gives him a better chance.

im not convinced he even fits with this england side, where we seem to be drilled superbly in the field now.
 
rentaghost said:
Its a fair enough opinion to have but its not really in Flower's make up and I think he feels its important for Broad and Swann to have the freedom to bat withoiut inhibitions that 8 or 9 gives them. I still think he will repalce Morgan with a Stokes or Bopara type and drop a seamer for a spinner.

Not all test matches in India are dustbowls and they may even just stick with the normal team.



I think if you are only going in with 2 front line seamers then yes. You might only get a few overs but they can bowl with a bit of zip (certainly Stokes can) and reverse swing which you need in India.
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I can see why Flower prefers that approach, and if that is the way he wants to go with batting down to 7, I'd rather see him swap Tremlett for Monty on the dustbowls, with a few dibbly dobblies from Trott and even a 3rd spinner in KP when we need them. Then bring in Tremlett/Bresnan when conditions and the pitch dictate.

I haven't seen enough of Stokes to comment on him, but I'd much rather have Morgan than Bopara on batting ability, and I don't think occasional overs from Bopara warrant a place in the team ahead of anyone currently there, including Morgan even with current form taken into account.

Despite that, my worry is still that we might be a bit light on the bowling front, just because the best way to counter a dustbowl is to have some variety in the attack, which is fine with Swann, Monty and KP, but I'm not convinced that a combination of Jimmy, Broad and Trott would be enough in the seem department, which was why I put forward the Broad at 7 suggestion.

I'm just glad I'm not Andy Flower.
 
dangermows said:
i used to think monty was going to be top drawer but he went off the boil. suppose the fact we bat all the way down now gives him a better chance.

im not convinced he even fits with this england side, where we seem to be drilled superbly in the field now.
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All the reason to take Rashid, 3D cricketer if Duncan Fletcher is to be believed.
 
Slol said:
Morgan, The sky pundits reckon it could be a case of prior batting 6 then an Adil Rashid, Samit Patel or Borthwick taking the second spinners spot at 7.
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The Sky pundits mentioned him? I don't think he's anywhere near, especially considering Rashid still hasn't had a look in (even though I think Borthwick will be a better bowler than Rashid over time (this may be with my whatever the Durham equivalent of red and white tinted specs is))

I said a while ago it will be Patel and I still think it will be mainly because he can bat, and seems to be more of a containing spinner with Swanny being the attacking spiiner.
 
chelt_mackem said:
I can see why Flower prefers that approach, and if that is the way he wants to go with batting down to 7, I'd rather see him swap Tremlett for Monty on the dustbowls, with a few dibbly dobblies from Trott and even a 3rd spinner in KP when we need them. Then bring in Tremlett/Bresnan when conditions and the pitch dictate.

I haven't seen enough of Stokes to comment on him, but I'd much rather have Morgan than Bopara on batting ability, and I don't think occasional overs from Bopara warrant a place in the team ahead of anyone currently there, including Morgan even with current form taken into account.

Despite that, my worry is still that we might be a bit light on the bowling front, just because the best way to counter a dustbowl is to have some variety in the attack, which is fine with Swann, Monty and KP, but I'm not convinced that a combination of Jimmy, Broad and Trott would be enough in the seem department, which was why I put forward the Broad at 7 suggestion.

I'm just glad I'm not Andy Flower.
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I absolutely agree. I think the selectors have been desperate for Bopara to get huge runs. They may well have selected him originally ahead of Morgan but he started the season poorly and failed in the 'trial' when Morgan got a 100. He also failed this week for the Lions where taylor got runs. I think the selectors like Bopara but hes not making the most of his chances and others are.
 
rentaghost said:
I dont really know enough about the other spinners such as Briggs but in India you need to be able to bowl tightly for long periods as well as have the ability to take wickets. I dont think its somewhere to debut a young player even though Swann did do OK out there.

I would go for Monty for the India tour and then maybe look elsewhere.
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which completely goes against what has helped England climb the rankings (ie, continuity of selection)
 
rentaghost said:
I see your point. Fair enough.
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Isn't this nice :lol:

I haven't seen Rashid for a bit, what's his bowling like these days?

Otherwise it's Panesar/Patel, I don't think any of the other spinners have proved themselves over a long enough time apart from Tredwell who seems pretty run of the mill to me.
 
Pick your bowlers to take wickets, and pick your batsmen to score runs.

If Monty is our best second spinner and we need two in India, then he should play regardless of his batting.

His fielding isn't as bas as some make out.
 
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