Police video

Status
Not open for further replies.
Beaker said:
Lets be fair, cops can't win.

Too strict - Someone complains
Too lenient - Someone complains
Do their jobs to the letter - Someone will complain

There are many on here that hold the view that ACAB and won't be told otherwise. These same people will want the cops to come running at the drop of a hat were there house burgled etc.....
Click to expand...

Nail on head.
 


Lefty Frizzell said:
Are you serious? So the police can stop you and take possessions because they don't know if its stolen or not? Can you prove that you own the clothes you are wearing and the phone you have in your pocket if you are stopped on the street? There is a fine line between the police acting on genuine suspicion and them abusing their powers. In that video there was no report of a stolen generator, the policeman was simply making assumptions.[/QUOTE]
Click to expand...


Fuelled by the fact that the man had a shaved tattooed head and nose rings and was wearing combats....
 
Lefty Frizzell said:
Aye, but the police need reasonable grounds to form suspicion. The fact that somebody refuses to give their name does not then give them reason to find you a suspicious person, the member of the public has not broken any laws. Regarding your hypothetical situation, what about a person who is walking down the street at 3am with a laptop who has been out on the lash since leaving work? Should the police be allowed to take the laptop off them as it is 'odd' behavior? You cant be suspected of a crime just because of the way a person looks or what time of day it is, that's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Exactly and he can't retrospectively add the refusal to give name and address as grounds, he didn't know they were going to refuse when he decided to stop them
 
Her Ivory Tower said:
Fuelled by the fact that the man had a shaved tattooed head and nose rings and was wearing combats....
Click to expand...
Exactly. I am predicting that if the fella was walking up the lane with a nice jumper and a sensible haircut the copper would have walked on by. It is scary how you can become suspicious. I owned a Kappa jacket as a kid, didn't mean i smoked tac and decked goths (granted I looked nails liyke), I was just a trend setter. :)
 
Flash Gordon said:
If the Police suspected it was stolen or had reports of a generator being stolen then why wasn't he arrested? They never confirmed anywhere that he owned the generator.
Click to expand...

Hey who knows. As I say, I would have arrested him. Criticise that decision by all means, I've no problem with that.
 
Lefty Frizzell said:
Exactly. I am predicting that if the fella was walking up the lane with a nice jumper and a sensible haircut the copper would have walked on by. It is scary how you can become suspicious. I owned a Kappa jacket as a kid, didn't mean i smoked tac and decked goths (granted I looked nails liyke), I was just a trend setter. :)
Click to expand...

And if he was black or didn't have that camera recording things he'd have been taken away in the police van and given a beating for having the neck to refuse to give his name.
 
gavinmcant said:
Hey who knows. As I say, I would have arrested him. Criticise that decision by all means, I've no problem with that.
Click to expand...

Why would you have arrested him? Is carrying a generator enough to suggest he had stolen it? Is it specifically because it was a generator or would you have arrested him for carrying shopping without a receipt if he didn't give you his name?
 
Flash Gordon said:
And if he was black or didn't have that camera recording things he'd have been taken away in the police van and given a beating for having the neck to refuse to give his name.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know who you are, I think you look dodgy cos you look different to me, and I dont own a generator so how can you own one? Rights, thats enough for me, you're coming down the nick. Reg will book you in and you will get one phone call. When it turns out that you own the generator we will laugh it off and the waste of police time and resources will be laughed off because i was following a hunch. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH
 
Lefty Frizzell said:
I guess we are gunna disagree on this no matter what;) I have no issue with the police what so ever, but I do not agree with police abusing their powers. If I was stopped walking to my house with a generator for example and asked to give them my details, im not sure I would. I don't see the difference between walking to my house with a generator, a bag of shopping from the supermarket or holding a bag that had swag written on it, unless somebody has reported a crime and given my description what right have they to stop me and detain me? My point really is that you should not have to prove your innocence. I dont feel comfortable that the police feel hat they can abuse their powers (not all police btw, i believe the majority understood what honoring their oath means). Unless they go and stop me under Section 1 of PACE I think I would probably stand up for my rights.


"Well I dont know who yer are"
Click to expand...

You don't have to prove your innocence mate- the CPS have to prove your guilt and Police have to provide a valid argument for you being charged. In the absence of a report of a stolen jenny then it's obviously not going to happen but the reality is, people often get stopped with stolen stuff before the victims realised its gone. Now my guess, and it is a guess, is that that cop has been sent to wherever that video was taken because tools were getting nicked- he sees a couple of lads with Jenny and wants to know who they are and proof it's theirs. In the absence of either, I think it's reasonable to suspect it might be nicked. He has a duty to protect property and should seize it until it is established that it's not stolen under those hypothetical circumstances. Of course, the video doesn't show that bigger picture and can easily be interpreted by those who wish, to be oppressive and unjustifiable.
 
Beaker said:
I was just being flippant.

Edit: Is flippant the right word?
Click to expand...
Right, sonny, name and address please?

Lefty Frizzell said:
Arrested him for what? Refusing to his details? That is not a crime. What has he done? I hope to god you are not employed by the police.
Click to expand...
He is a copper. He once accused me on here of being a paedophile because I said some girls (my friends at school) were mature enough to have sex before 16 so I expect he would arrest someone for no reason .:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Flash Gordon said:
Why would you have arrested him? Is carrying a generator enough to suggest he had stolen it? Is it specifically because it was a generator or would you have arrested him for carrying shopping without a receipt if he didn't give you his name?
Click to expand...

As I have said, it depends entirely upon circumstances that are not evident from that video. If i saw a lad carrying a jenny, in an area where they do get nicked, he can't prove it's his or give me enough details to identify him, yeah, I am definitely nicking hi because I SUSPECT, not believe, but SUSPECT it might be stolen. You'd be well chuffed if it was your tele that had been burgled I had just seized. All part of the job Sir.

Her Ivory Tower said:
Right, sonny, name and address please?


He is a copper.
Click to expand...

Yes. Hmmmm. And no though.

Her Ivory Tower said:
Right, sonny, name and address please?


He is a copper. He once accused me on here of being a paedophile because I said some girls (my friends at school) were mature enough to have sex before 16 so I expect he would arrest someone for no reason .:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Love you to be able to find a post where I said that. You inferred an awful lot. But you keep bumping that line.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
gavinmcant said:
You don't have to prove your innocence mate- the CPS have to prove your guilt and Police have to provide a valid argument for you being charged. In the absence of a report of a stolen jenny then it's obviously not going to happen but the reality is, people often get stopped with stolen stuff before the victims realised its gone. Now my guess, and it is a guess, is that that cop has been sent to wherever that video was taken because tools were getting nicked- he sees a couple of lads with Jenny and wants to know who they are and proof it's theirs. In the absence of either, I think it's reasonable to suspect it might be nicked. He has a duty to protect property and should seize it until it is established that it's not stolen under those hypothetical circumstances. Of course, the video doesn't show that bigger picture and can easily be interpreted by those who wish, to be oppressive and unjustifiable.
Click to expand...
If as you say, that there has been a report of items been stolen or if the location is a theft hot spot then that it is a totally different scenario. That is assumptions again though. Simply stopping people on the street and asking questions without any grounds of suspicion is not a reason to detain, and when they refuse to give their name it is not enough grounds to find them suspicious, as is shown in that video. Police do not have a duty to protect property when they have no evidence that is stolen im afraid.
 
gavinmcant said:
As I have said, it depends entirely upon circumstances that are not evident from that video. If i saw a lad carrying a jenny, in an area where they do get nicked, he can't prove it's his or give me enough details to identify him, yeah, I am definitely nicking hi because I SUSPECT, not believe, but SUSPECT it might be stolen. You'd be well chuffed if it was your tele that had been burgled I had just seized. All part of the job Sir.



Yes. Hmmmm. And no though.
Click to expand...

But they didn't arrest him because they obviously weren't in an area where Jenny's get nicked or they hadn't had a report of one being nicked.

Of course I'd be very happy if Police stopped someone who had burgled my house but that doesn't give them the right to stop everyone within a 3 mile radius of my house and make them identify themselves and prove that the possessions they carry are their own.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top