Education minister comes on tv to say Sats aren't difficult and gets question wrong

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:)

My daughter is doing hers next week.
We've done loads of mocks and other stuff, they are much harder than he makes out in this interview. Also putting them all into 4 days is a joke.
 
Just because something is specific doesn't mean that it is difficult.

Nobody seems to be able to answer how difficult these KS2 SATs actually are. People are getting their knickers in a twist because they themselves can't identify a subordinating clause or the past progressive tense, but if an eleven year old child is given two years to learn this material, can they?

Please note this is a separate issue as to whether it's beneficial to test these things. I'm addressing the difficulty and difficulty only.
 
Frijj said:
Just because something is specific doesn't mean that it is difficult.

Nobody seems to be able to answer how difficult these KS2 SATs actually are. People are getting their knickers in a twist because they themselves can't identify a subordinating clause or the past progressive tense, but if an eleven year old child is given two years to learn this material, can they?

Please note this is a separate issue as to whether it's beneficial to test these things. I'm addressing the difficulty and difficulty only.
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But should they?

Who gives a fuck if they can't tell a proposition from a subjunctive clause? Wtf??

Let's spend two years teaching 11 year olds how to pass a test that won't help them do anything at all in the real world, but will help schools pass a review or get into a league table and earn more money as they're all going to be academies from next year.

In the meantime, little Maisie can't tell the difference between 1500% Apr and a high street loan, or how to write a CV or speak properly in an interview.
 
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HellsBells said:
But should they?

Who gives a fuck if they can't tell a proposition from a subjunctive clause? Wtf??

Let's spend two years teaching 11 year olds how to pass a test that won't help them do anything at all in the real world, but will help schools pass a review or get into a league table and earn more money as they're all going to be academy's from next year.

In the meantime, little Maisie can't tell the difference between 1500% Apr and a high street loan, or how to write a CV or speak properly in an interview.
Click to expand...

I'm not defending what they're testing or saying they should be testing it, nor am I making a suggestion as to what schools should or should not test.

I just want to get to the bottom of whether or not these SATs are actually difficult for the age group in question.

It's unfair to say things like "Well, I teach A-Level English and we don't cover this" or "I did not do this at school" or "I'm a thirty year old English graduate and I don't know these things" etc because the odds are you weren't taught them and if you were you've forgotten them.

Simply, is this material difficult for KS2 children?
 
My son has his next week. We have just told him to do his best....

His school have been lucky enough to be chosen to complete trial science sats as well....

I did a trial english sats exam and I got 3 out of 10 so theres no point in him coming to me for advice..
 
HellsBells said:
But should they?

Who gives a fuck if they can't tell a proposition from a subjunctive clause? Wtf??

....
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As kids we went as far as learning about verbs, nouns, adjectives etc. but our 8 year old has to learn about conjunctions etc. and it's as confusing as fook.

Frijj said:
I'm not defending what they're testing or saying they should be testing it, nor am I making a suggestion as to what schools should or should not test.

I just want to get to the bottom of whether or not these SATs are actually difficult for the age group in question.

It's unfair to say things like "Well, I teach A-Level English and we don't cover this" or "I did not do this at school" or "I'm a thirty year old English graduate and I don't know these things" etc because the odds are you weren't taught them and if you were you've forgotten them.

Simply, is this material difficult for KS2 children?
Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter mate, there's far more important content to learn IMHO.
 
Frijj said:
I'm not defending what they're testing or saying they should be testing it, nor am I making a suggestion as to what schools should or should not test.

I just want to get to the bottom of whether or not these SATs are actually difficult for the age group in question.

It's unfair to say things like "Well, I teach A-Level English and we don't cover this" or "I did not do this at school" or "I'm a thirty year old English graduate and I don't know these things" etc because the odds are you weren't taught them and if you were you've forgotten them.

Simply, is this material difficult for KS2 children?
Click to expand...
I don't really care if it's difficult or easy. I want my kids learning things that are going to be useful and not stuff that only exists to be tested.
 
HellsBells said:
But should they?

Who gives a fuck if they can't tell a proposition from a subjunctive clause? Wtf??

Let's spend two years teaching 11 year olds how to pass a test that won't help them do anything at all in the real world, but will help schools pass a review or get into a league table and earn more money as they're all going to be academy's from next year.

In the meantime, little Maisie can't tell the difference between 1500% Apr and a high street loan, or how to write a CV or speak properly in an interview.
Click to expand...

If they're called Maisie they probably can.

It's little Kyra you need to worry about.
 
HellsBells said:
I don't really care if it's difficult or easy. I want my kids learning things that are going to be useful and not stuff that only exists to be tested.
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Hells, I entirely understand.

However I don't think the test should be misrepresented as difficult if it isn't, which is why I'm trying to obtain the opinions and thoughts of those who can say whether it is or it isn't.

I already think it is material that is pointless to teach.
 
Frijj said:
Just because something is specific doesn't mean that it is difficult.

Nobody seems to be able to answer how difficult these KS2 SATs actually are. People are getting their knickers in a twist because they themselves can't identify a subordinating clause or the past progressive tense, but if an eleven year old child is given two years to learn this material, can they?

Please note this is a separate issue as to whether it's beneficial to test these things. I'm addressing the difficulty and difficulty only.
Click to expand...



Posted it yesterday and so will post it again today....These are the sample test papers for this years KS2 English Sats. The first questions are OK, the last half is mental......The biggest issue is not whether kids can learn this stuff but these other key issues

a) What they are learning is utterly pointless.
b) The tests are not fit for purpose, when the kids are base tested in year 7 they cannot apply what they have "learnt" during the SATS to anything other than the exact format of the SATS...They learn it by rote and often have very little real understanding of it.
c) Year 6 prep for SATS is destroying kids love of learning. It will be worse when these papers come out as there is literally no interesting way to teach this nonsense.
d) The SATS cause both staff, pupils and therefore parents a huge amount of stress. Given THE only benefit of them is to create league tables which in themselves are no fit for purpose as you are not comparing like with like then why should they be done?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...99/Sample_ks2_EnglishGPS_paper1_questions.pdf
 
Bagpuss said:
Posted it yesterday and so will post it again today....These are the sample test papers for this years KS2 English Sats. The first questions are OK, the last half is mental......The biggest issue is not whether kids can learn this stuff but these other key issues

a) What they are learning is utterly pointless.
b) The tests are not fit for purpose, when the kids are base tested in year 7 they cannot apply what they have "learnt" during the SATS to anything other than the exact format of the SATS...They learn it by rote and often have very little real understanding of it.
c) Year 6 prep for SATS is destroying kids love of learning. It will be worse when these papers come out as there is literally no interesting way to teach this nonsense.
d) The SATS cause both staff, pupils and therefore parents a huge amount of stress. Given THE only benefit of them is to create league tables which in themselves are no fit for purpose as you are not comparing like with like then why should they be done?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...99/Sample_ks2_EnglishGPS_paper1_questions.pdf
Click to expand...

Bagpuss, that isn't what I'm asking.

I fully appreciate that there are other concerns about the content.

I'm not asking if it's pointless, I'm not asking if it's fit for purpose, I'm not asking if it'll destroy their desire to learn and I'm not asking if it'll cause stress.

I want to know if given the time to learn it, is it difficult for the intended students.
 
HellsBells said:
But should they?

Who gives a fuck if they can't tell a proposition from a subjunctive clause? Wtf??

Let's spend two years teaching 11 year olds how to pass a test that won't help them do anything at all in the real world, but will help schools pass a review or get into a league table and earn more money as they're all going to be academies from next year.

In the meantime, little Maisie can't tell the difference between 1500% Apr and a high street loan, or how to write a CV or speak properly in an interview.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
 
Frijj said:
Bagpuss, that isn't what I'm asking.

I fully appreciate that there are other concerns about the content.

I'm not asking if it's pointless, I'm not asking if it's fit for purpose, I'm not asking if it'll destroy their desire to learn and I'm not asking if it'll cause stress.

I want to know if given the time to learn it, is it difficult for the intended students.
Click to expand...


You tell me, I am struggling to follow this explanation. How on earth would you go about explaining this to an 11 year old? A few of the very brightest might have a clue what you are talking about before they drop into a bored coma but the vast majority will literally baffled (as am I)


http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/subordinateconjunction.htm
 
Frijj said:
I'm not defending what they're testing or saying they should be testing it, nor am I making a suggestion as to what schools should or should not test.

I just want to get to the bottom of whether or not these SATs are actually difficult for the age group in question.

It's unfair to say things like "Well, I teach A-Level English and we don't cover this" or "I did not do this at school" or "I'm a thirty year old English graduate and I don't know these things" etc because the odds are you weren't taught them and if you were you've forgotten them.

Simply, is this material difficult for KS2 children?
Click to expand...

Very difficult.
 
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