Battle of the Somme

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My Grandad was a gunner in the Royal Artillery and served in the Somme and later in Ypes. A terrible day for the British soldier.

Whilst our generals weren't blame free, the real killer that day for our lads were dud shells, it's estimated now that upto 25% were dud and some were not of a high enough calibre. This meant that the wire wasn't cut, which proved catastrophic. The other issue was poor tactics, no creeping barrage meant the Germans were given time to prepare for our assault. The French who had better shells and a creeping barrage were tremendously successful on the first day of the Somme. Lessons learned.
 
My great-great uncle went MIA, presumed dead. The family received the dreaded telegram of death from the MOD.

After months of mourning his passing, the family was all of a sudden notified that he was actually in a hospital in Scotland.... :lol:

He'd been mustard (or for the Geordie's amongst us MUSTAD!) gassed and immediately evacuated to Scotland to receive treatment for his injury's... He never had to go back and by all accounts was very lucky to survive.
 
SuperGerryHarrison said:
My Grandad was a gunner in the Royal Artillery and served in the Somme and later in Ypes. A terrible day for the British soldier.

Whilst our generals weren't blame free, the real killer that day for our lads were dud shells, it's estimated now that upto 25% were dud and some were not of a high enough calibre. This meant that the wire wasn't cut, which proved catastrophic. The other issue was poor tactics, no creeping barrage meant the Germans were given time to prepare for our assault. The French who had better shells and a creeping barrage were tremendously successful on the first day of the Somme. Lessons learned.
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If 75% of the shells were NOT duds then it's still a lot of shells landing and detonating. Also when we learned about WWI we were told that shells don't have an effect of barbed wire as they blew it into the air and it still landed intact, if not more tangled and difficult to breach.

Also a lot of the Germans sheltered in deep dug-outs and were therefore not wiped out by the bombardment and knew when the attacks would commence as soon as the artillery stopped. A good point re: creeping barrage that was used later in the war to good effect.

nelford_safc said:
Can't even begin to imagine the horrors of that battle. Proper blokes looking death in the face yet still advancing for king and country. Legends.
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Yes they were as brave as fook but would have been shot if they refused to attack.
 
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They were ordered to walk slowly with rifles pointed forward, no bullets allowed "in the spout" only bayonets.

The Generals assumed that the sight of the British Army walking toward the German lines, with the morning sun glinting of the steel of the bayonets would be enough to scare them into retreat.

f***ing idiots.
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
If 75% of the shells were NOT duds then it's still a lot of shells landing and detonating. Also when we learned about WWI we were told that shells don't have an effect of barbed wire as they blew it into the air and it still landed intact, if not more tangled and difficult to breach.

Also a lot of the Germans sheltered in deep dug-outs and were therefore not wiped out by the bombardment and knew when the attacks would commence as soon as the artillery stopped. A good point re: creeping barrage that was used later in the war to good effect.



Yes they were as brave as fook but would have been shot if they refused to attack.
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You missed the point re she'll calibre and type which played a part.

I suppose the myth I'm trying to dispel is the lions led by donkeys.

The French with a battle hardened force, effective shells and a creeping barrage overwhelmed the Germans and achieved all its strategic goals and more.

The British fielded Kitcheners Army, a million volunteers from the butcher to the baker, banker to the farmer. Our boys had very little combat experience. We had dud shells and stopped the artillery barrage far to early.

The result. Near on 60,000 poor souls were left on that battlefield at sun set. It wasn't all down to Haig ordering them over the top. The strategy was the best we had at the time and could be successful if implemented properly. The lessons we learned from the Aomme helped us win the war 2 years later
 
SuperGerryHarrison said:
You missed the point re she'll calibre and type which played a part.

I suppose the myth I'm trying to dispel is the lions led by donkeys.

The French with a battle hardened force, effective shells and a creeping barrage overwhelmed the Germans and achieved all its strategic goals and more.

The British fielded Kitcheners Army, a million volunteers from the butcher to the baker, banker to the farmer. Our boys had very little combat experience. We had dud shells and stopped the artillery barrage far to early.

The result. Near on 60,000 poor souls were left on that battlefield at sun set. It wasn't all down to Haig ordering them over the top. The strategy was the best we had at the time and could be successful if implemented properly. The lessons we learned from the Aomme helped us win the war 2 years later
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Yeah some good points but British Army also reached some targets but didn't exploit them. As you say we learned eventually and then stormed the Hindenbury line in 1918 which was a considerable feat of arms.
 
IF I should die, think only this of me;
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware, 5
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.

And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less 10
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

RIP
 
What is that mad statistic about The Somme? More killed in the first hour or first day than the Yanks lost in the whole of the Vietnam War? If true that sums up the scale of the carnage. What a waste.
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
WWI was fought over Belgian neutrality but of course a war was simmering for a while.

I respect those that fought but I'm not sure if they were keeping GB 'free' unless Germany were going to invade us after France.

WW2 a different matter of course.
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We were also worried about the rise of German power, and potential impact to our Empire, I think the general opinion was that Germany needed to be stopped, of course history would say it did not work out as hoped.

There were so many reasons used to justify the war, none of which made a bit of difference to the fate of the lads at the sharp end, but they must have been a magnificent bunch of lads all the same.
 
North of the Smoke said:
We were also worried about the rise of German power, and potential impact to our Empire, I think the general opinion was that Germany needed to be stopped, of course history would say it did not work out as hoped.

There were so many reasons used to justify the war, none of which made a bit of difference to the fate of the lads at the sharp end, but they must have been a magnificent bunch of lads all the same.
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Yes I'm glad you understood that I was in no way intending to detract from what they had to go through.
 
North of the Smoke said:
No, not at all mate, it really is an interesting subject, my family lost lads in that war, remarkable how much people gave, and still do.

Great country this, just needs to be led as one.
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One of my great-grandfathers was killed in 1917 so the family have done a bit of research and one uncle visited the site where my great-grandfather was killed. Awful to think that every family will have a similar story.
 
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