Why do you want to sack Tony and not Speakman?


We've been in the top 10 all season, and that's been while dealing with anywhere from 5-10 first teamers injuries throughout that time span. Do you really think there are 10 better squads than us in the division?

This squad is good enough to compete for a playoff place. I don't really see any reason why we shouldn't be in the mix come the end of the season barring an injury crisis/Jan sales.

We're still 9th. Squad wise we're mid table depending on luck, injuries form - we could sneak in if all goes extremely well, or we could finish five or six places down from where we are. You ask do I think there are 10 better squads? I would say that experience and know how plays a part, as does qualityand its something we lack. There's nothing much to set us apart from many sides in the league this season.

To finish nywhere near the play offs we'd need to be more pragmatic which would likely mean another centre half in and Evans fit (or similar signed) as the kids and Onien are just too naive. Or we'd have to see large improvements in forward areas from a goalscorer and other attacking players which at the moment just doesn't look likely.

Realistically we've lost about 30 goals from last season when we got into the play offs and some attacking quality which just hasn't been properly replaced, so you have to say barring something phenomenal happening it won't happen. It's not rocket science.
 
Really? That list must include teams we've not played against. Outside of the top four, I can't think of anyone who've had me envious of their options, nor can I remember too many standout midfield or striking performances.

I'm not buying that anyone genuinely thinks the likes of Norwich, Watford or Preston have better squads than us currently.

Other than Clarke, Ballard and maybe Roberts and Neil, the rest of the team isn't exactly world beaters. We also have by far the worst strikers in the whole league as they've managed a combined effort of 0 goals, which is pretty impressive.

Going away from our first 11, our squad players are poor currently as they're inexperienced and raw. We have absolutely no depth to the squad. We're not a strong team, we just really overperformed last season. We're a two trick pony and if Roberts and Clarke are marked out the game were completely toothless and it's happened 3 games in a row now with very little to change that as the alternatives are piss poor - see Ba yesterday.
 
Last edited:
He has provided 4 strikers that have failed to find the net in 19 games mind, he has also ignored the manager who has been asking for a cdm to replace Evans since he got injured. Mowbray is not without his faults, but neither is the recruitment.
None of which detracts from the fact that we don't have any plan to mitigate against these faults. One of Mowbray's jobs is to produce these plans and put them into effect. He seems to play roulette with our strikers, throwing them on as the game spins out of control. I haven't seen a striker get a run of games to develop a rapport with our midfield and wingers. Teams can now defend against our strengths but we don't seem able to identify the weaknesses of our opposition.
 
Other than Clarke, Ballard and maybe Roberts and Neil, the rest of the team isn't exactly world beaters. We also have by far the worst strikers in the whole league as they've managed a combined effort of 0 goals, which is pretty impressive.

Going away from our first 11, our squad players are poor currently as they're inexperienced and raw. We have absolutely no depth to the squad. We're not a strong team, we just really overperformed last season. We're a two trick pony and if Roberts and Clarke are marked out the game were completely toothless and it's happened 3 games in a row now with very little to change that as the alternatives are piss poor - see Ba yesterday.
Ba just didn''t get into the game yesterday.Perhaps they should try 2 strikers with Jack given a free role to play just behind them and can switch to either side. Just shake it up a bit and then they would find it harder to double up on Clarke
 
Other than Clarke, Ballard and maybe Roberts and Neil, the rest of the team isn't exactly world beaters. We also have by far the worst strikers in the whole league as they've managed a combined effort of 0 goals, which is pretty impressive.

Going away from our first 11, our squad players are poor currently as they're inexperienced and raw. We have absolutely no depth to the squad. We're not a strong team, we just really overperformed last season. We're a two trick pony and if Roberts and Clarke are marked out the game were completely toothless and it's happened 3 games in a row now with very little to change that as the alternatives are piss poor - see Ba yesterday.
I find it hard to disagree with any of this.

Our squad is way overrated on here. A fully fit and in form first team gets to the play offs but take a few of those out due to injuries and lack of form and the depth just isn't there.

Look at he central midfield for example. We're in a situation where Ekwah is currently stinking the place out and we don't have a single player we can bring in for him.
 
Ba just didn''t get into the game yesterday.Perhaps they should try 2 strikers with Jack given a free role to play just behind them and can switch to either side. Just shake it up a bit and then they would find it harder to double up on Clarke

I think you'd have problems in midfield then, would leave Ekwah pretty exposed and he's been absolutely woeful since he's come back from injury. The ST / CDM problem is a bit of a mess, we're crying for Evans to be back and hopefully be in the form he was in before his injury - would make a massive difference tbh.
 
Crux of the problem

Thats might be OK when you have an amad ...

Not sure it will mate.

We've went from a side with pace that can break and get up the field quickly, to a one that is almost pedestrian in the way we move the ball. Again Mowbray was talking about how much possession we had yet still didn't win the game. His unwillingness to change from this slow possession based football is clearly our biggest problem.
 
None of which detracts from the fact that we don't have any plan to mitigate against these faults. One of Mowbray's jobs is to produce these plans and put them into effect. He seems to play roulette with our strikers, throwing them on as the game spins out of control. I haven't seen a striker get a run of games to develop a rapport with our midfield and wingers. Teams can now defend against our strengths but we don't seem able to identify the weaknesses of our opposition.
You can have all the plans and tactics under the sun, but if the players are simply not good enough for example our 4 strikers then it won't make a blind bit of difference.
 
Not sure it will mate.

We've went from a side with pace that can break and get up the field quickly, to a one that is almost pedestrian in the way we move the ball. Again Mowbray was talking about how much possession we had yet still didn't win the game. His unwillingness to change from this slow possession based football is clearly our biggest problem.

People have sussed out all you need to do is man mark and Roberts and Clarke and park the bus and fight on the counter. If you take them completely out of the game then where are they going to pass the ball to. It's very hard to man mark Amad, Clarke and Roberts when all 3 on the pitch and that's a big key difference. It's piss easy to mark 2 players, 3 players is extremely difficult especially when you've got Cirkin who likes to move forward added to the mix aswell.

Not to mention Geldhart aswell who wasn't exactly the best player in the world, but one thing he done was got into positions and made movement which dragged players out of position to allow Clarke and others space, the current lot wouldn't know where to stand if there was a cross on a pitch telling them where to.
 
Last edited:
That’s a good one.

Wingbacks could be a different system. Going 4-3-3. Trying Hume as an outright CDM (he’s only ever inverted from fullback)

Or keeping the shape but changing how we play. Creating triangles up the pitch by getting the fullbacks high. Countering more as you say. 2 strikers. Lots of different options that we don’t do. But I’d expect the coaches to come up with better ideas.

Some posters were flagging this last season, when we were winning. It’s always been true because Mowbray isn’t a particularly good tactician. That is the case whether we win lose or draw. It’s just when you win it’s less obvious because you need the Plan B, but the issue is always there.

We’re relatively easy to sit back deep against and we concede chances on the counter

I would have sacked him after things went right last season
Yes, clearly a lack of width is an issue so let’s play wing backs 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
People have sussed out all you need to do is man mark and Roberts and Clarke and park the bus and fight on the counter. If you take them completely out of the game then where are they going to pass the ball to. It's very hard to man mark Amad, Clarke and Roberts when all 3 on the pitch and that's a big key difference. It's piss easy to mark 2 players, 3 players is extremely difficult especially when you've got Cirkin who likes to move forward added to the mix aswell.

Not to mention Geldhart aswell who wasn't exactly the best player in the world, but one thing he done was got into positions and made movement which dragged players out of position to allow Clarke and others space, the current lot wouldn't know where to stand if there was a cross on a pitch telling them where to.

We're not making any movements mate.

Iys like the lads are terrified to give the ball away this season when last they weren't bothered cos we'd just go and get it back.
There's been a real change of our play and indeed urgency this season. Making Hume cover RB and CM has seen Roberts coming deeper on the right with no help offensively and it's just became a case of give it to Clarke no matter what and see what he can do.

I just think Mowbrays out of ideas and he's now coming out saying players aren't ready to cover his own back. Even if some do need more games, you don't come out and publicly put these lads down. Especially when his own tactics aren't baring any fruit and in fact sending us backwards. I think it's the end of the road for him now tbh.
 
Personally do not think we have the players to go one better. Ba isn’t good enough for me, Burstow is lacking, Ekwah can be poor, Aouchiche I don’t think is the answer and isn’t any better than the likes of Pritchard, Jobe has looked decent but inconsistent and has had a few difficult games, Mayenda is too raw and Rusyn again I don’t think is good enough.

Amad literally dragged us into those play offs. Recruitment has been a bit lacking. None improved the squad imo.
Excellent post. Totally agree.
 
We're still 9th. Squad wise we're mid table depending on luck, injuries form - we could sneak in if all goes extremely well, or we could finish five or six places down from where we are. You ask do I think there are 10 better squads? I would say that experience and know how plays a part, as does qualityand its something we lack. There's nothing much to set us apart from many sides in the league this season.

To finish nywhere near the play offs we'd need to be more pragmatic which would likely mean another centre half in and Evans fit (or similar signed) as the kids and Onien are just too naive. Or we'd have to see large improvements in forward areas from a goalscorer and other attacking players which at the moment just doesn't look likely.

Realistically we've lost about 30 goals from last season when we got into the play offs and some attacking quality which just hasn't been properly replaced, so you have to say barring something phenomenal happening it won't happen. It's not rocket science.

We only need to replace 30 goals if we concede as many as we did last season, which we don't look like doing currently. We've also got plenty of defensive cover to come back in the second half of the season.

You say attacking improvements don't look likely, but I'd say Mayenda and Rusyn up front have been an improvement on what we started the season with, and provided they stay fit and get game time, you would naturally expect them to improve.

I think people tend to overrate the rest of the league when comparing them to us. The vast majority of teams are looking for a striker. Barring more bad luck with injuries, I can't see any reason why we can't be around the playoffs come May.
 
You can have all the plans and tactics under the sun, but if the players are simply not good enough for example our 4 strikers then it won't make a blind bit of difference.
Chatting like this makes it seem we are diametrically opposed. We aren't - I'm not happy with our striker recruitment or our lack of recruitment of a defensive midfielder but we all know our tactic is give it to Clarke and hope, play it slowly out from the back and across our back line allowing poor opposition to operate a high press.press. I could say, it doesn't matter how good your strikers are, uot still ned a range of tactics. We don't display a range of tactics. You can almost predict when we will concede and what Mowbray's reaction will be.
 
I'm not buying that anyone genuinely thinks the likes of Norwich, Watford or Preston have better squads than us currently.

I think many of those have more experience and players who have played at this level. Look at Millwall for instance - they had a couple of goalscorers in Nisbet (only scored about 4 this season like) and Bradshaw off the bench. Are they more talented than some of ours? Well maybe not. Are they more experienced and ready to play at this level - yes and you can add other seasoned players into that mix as well.

Preston for instance signed Will Keane in the close season who now appears to be injured. He scored 12 league goals last season at Wigan and has scored 4 in 5 for Preston when fit this season. Do I rate him or want him here - no. Can he play and score goals in the Championship- absolutely.

Norwich might be under performing but they've probably got as much quality as us and plenty of seasoned pros too - bit of a cliche, but the Championship is really much of a muchness and there's not a massive amount of difference between many of the sides in it.

for me that is the crux problem. We are basing much of the assessments on our squads strength on moments of quality we've seen, talent we believe they may have or what we've heard about them and largely not on consistency and what we've actually seen them produce. What we are actually seeing is a lot of naive football and kids who aren't that consistent or maybe in some cases nit good enough.
 
We are on track to concede 53 goals, that is nothing to do with Speakman. He has given the manager, Cirkin, Ballard, Hume (with Pattinson already at the club) who are all good enough for a top 6 Championship side. Our coach does not know how to set a side up defensively then compounds it by appointing a squad player midfielder at CB as captain

None of the strikers bar Hemir had any pre-season with us, None have been given an extended run ie, I would need to see them given 10 games before making any judgement. Whilst the coach does not seem to have put anything in place to help the team adapt to play with strikers

The lack of experience often quoted, well 09 is arguably our weakest player most weeks, despite being the most experienced.

Whilst TM deserves credit for blooding youngsters, Speakman has identified a number of quality players over the last few years, to the extent that he is arguably the clubs most important asset
 
I don’t personally think either should be sacked. What worries me about speakman and others of his ilk is they become too focused on the “project”. The project is great and I am all for watching young hungry players. That being said, teams need experience and whether he can look at the striker situation and say, “let’s get in an experienced striker to help the young lads out” remains to be seen. If I was him, I would be going to Bournemouth and looking to get Keifer Moore in even on loan in January.
 
We only need to replace 30 goals if we concede as many as we did last season, which we don't look like doing currently. We've also got plenty of defensive cover to come back in the second half of the season.

You say attacking improvements don't look likely, but I'd say Mayenda and Rusyn up front have been an improvement on what we started the season with, and provided they stay fit and get game time, you would naturally expect them to improve.

I think people tend to overrate the rest of the league when comparing them to us. The vast majority of teams are looking for a striker. Barring more bad luck with injuries, I can't see any reason why we can't be around the playoffs come May.

We don't look like doing currently? Whilst goals conceded in 19 games so far doesn't look bad at 22, in the last 10 games it's 15 conceded and that's bad. I'd say because we lack some of the experience we had last season and the quality up top and are likely playing a full season with Onien back there it's likely going to continue and as well as struggling to score as freely we are giving too many easy opportunities away.

Mayenda and Rusyn look like an improvement on what we started the season with? - I'd say they look pretty much like more of the same. It's very early for Rusyn but he doesn't look like a central player who can lead the line. With regards Mayenda he's not done anything, he's an 18 year old with a good amount of pace and power but he's not shown any sort of quality or composure on the ball yet and yesterday he couldn't even control it. What on earth are you basing your assement on?
 
Last edited:
I think a lot of the blame lies on KLD. After all he said when he took us over that he wanted to buy and play young players and see them develop. Speakman, the recruitment team and TM are only doing what they are told from above. KLD has been very naive as im sure every football club owner would love to that but you need some experience and tried and tested quality in your team.
 
I think many of those have more experience and players who have played at this level. Look at Millwall for instance - they had a couple of goalscorers in Nisbet (only scored about 4 this season like) and Bradshaw off the bench. Are they more talented than some of ours? Well maybe not. Are they more experienced and ready to play at this level - yes and you can add other seasoned players into that mix as well.

Preston for instance signed Will Keane in the close season who now appears to be injured. He scored 12 league goals last season at Wigan and has scored 4 in 5 for Preston when fit this season. Do I rate him or want him here - no. Can he play and score goals in the Championship- absolutely.

Norwich might be under performing but they've probably got as much quality as us and plenty of seasoned pros too - bit of a cliche, but the Championship is really much of a muchness and there's not a massive amount of difference between many of the sides in it.

for me that is the crux problem. We are basing much of the assessments on our squads strength on moments of quality we've seen, talent we believe they may have or what we've heard about them and largely not on consistency and what we've actually seen them produce. What we are actually seeing is a lot of naive football and kids who aren't that consistent or maybe in some cases nit good enough.
When the league is much of a muchness like you say, generally the teams with the best forwards (score most goals) do well.
Just look at Ipswich, conceded more than us but are top scorers in the league.
 

Back
Top