Who doesn't think Short is the problem?


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The majority of our debt is now with a third party at 9% APR.



You think Drummaville did worse? Why?

APR doesn't apply to corporate debt. The interest is paid at a flat rate an annual basis. Incidentally, said debt is in two parts, a £20m revolving credit facility ( a bit like an overdraft), of which the club had drawn down £15m at the end of 2014/15 year. There is also a term loan of £50m, which is subject to schedules repayments, and is due to be paid off by July 2019.

For what it's worth, Drumaville had totally run out of money. If Short hadn't stepped in, the club would have gone into administration in 2011. With hindsight, from a debt perspective, this might not have been a bad thing. From a playing perspective, it would probably have seen us relegated in 2011/12.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about about "round robin" PM groups.


Well 3 seasons watching the lads home and away in the championship and two watching us in the prem go down with a record low point total. But no, no idea.

3 years :lol:

WOW

You think the last 10 years have been a waste of time, so there is no point even discussing it you are so biased.

APR doesn't apply to corporate debt. The interest is paid at a flat rate an annual basis. Incidentally, said debt is in two parts, a £20m revolving credit facility ( a bit like an overdraft), of which the club had drawn down £15m at the end of 2014/15 year. There is also a term loan of £50m, which is subject to schedules repayments, and is due to be paid off by July 2019.

For what it's worth, Drumaville had totally run out of money. If Short hadn't stepped in, the club would have gone into administration in 2011. With hindsight, from a debt perspective, this might not have been a bad thing. From a playing perspective, it would probably have seen us relegated in 2011/12.

And relegated again the following year.
 
I screenshot the pms man. Ill just leave it hanging out there.
Theres an agenda.
Check out @radjee gadjee profile and the comments left........cough cough.....etc.

No agenda. I PM loads of people about politics, football, memorabilia etc. There is no "agenda". If you're talking to me and a few other people and some like Short and others don't it's hardly indicative of an agenda. Just people talking about football and having differing opinions.
 
The majority of our debt is now with a third party at 9% APR.

I'll happily retract if I'm wrong but as I understand it, we owe approx £60m to the bank and approx £90m to him.

So if we go down the only real debt repayment issue is to the bank as his debt would be frozen at worst and written off at best. That was the point of putting the bulk in his name.

To go down with effectively a £60m of debt is not ideal but it's more than survivable.

If you listen to the various Bain and Moyes interviews its suggests its wages and FFP are the issue not fees. Which suggests Short might yet still be happy to lash out big fees. Probably as another £20m now will get him £80m in summer when he sells(stop up) . But he can't due to hitting the buffer on FFP wage rules.
 
APR doesn't apply to corporate debt. The interest is paid at a flat rate an annual basis. Incidentally, said debt is in two parts, a £20m revolving credit facility ( a bit like an overdraft), of which the club had drawn down £15m at the end of 2014/15 year. There is also a term loan of £50m, which is subject to schedules repayments, and is due to be paid off by July 2019.

For what it's worth, Drumaville had totally run out of money. If Short hadn't stepped in, the club would have gone into administration in 2011. With hindsight, from a debt perspective, this might not have been a bad thing. From a playing perspective, it would probably have seen us relegated in 2011/12.

OK. So APR is the wrong term. But we are paying 9% interest on debt p/a right?

I'll happily retract if I'm wrong but as I understand it, we owe approx £60m to the bank and approx £90m to him.

So if we go down the only real debt repayment issue is to the bank as his debt would be frozen at worst and written off at best. That was the point of putting the bulk in his name.

To go down with effectively a £60m of debt is not ideal but it's more than survivable.

If you listen to the various Bain and Moyes interviews its suggests its wages and FFP are the issue not fees. Which suggests Short might yet still be happy to lash out big fees. Probably as another £20m now will get him £80m in summer when he sells(stop up) . But he can't due to hitting the buffer on FFP wage rules.

As I understand it we owe more to the bank.

Last year's accounts we paid £6.5m interest which at 9% would imply a debt of £70m, and I read the debt since then has all been with third party so it would suggest we have £100m now third party.
 
I'll happily retract if I'm wrong but as I understand it, we owe approx £60m to the bank and approx £90m to him.

So if we go down the only real debt repayment issue is to the bank as his debt would be frozen at worst and written off at best. That was the point of putting the bulk in his name.

To go down with effectively a £60m of debt is not ideal but it's more than survivable.

If you listen to the various Bain and Moyes interviews its suggests its wages and FFP are the issue not fees. Which suggests Short might yet still be happy to lash out big fees. Probably as another £20m now will get him £80m in summer when he sells. But he can't due to hitting the buffer on FFP wage rules.

We are also still paying transfer fees for players who have already been sold on. Its a mess no doubting that, and has been miss managed, but we have done a lot better than a lot of other clubs, and 10 years in the top flight has still be reasonable success for Sunderland, looking at our history in the last 65 years.

We have had chances to kick on and missed them, but its more for lack of strategy than lack of investment

Why @haway thinks Short can keep putting in his own money to back managers to sign players, when they leave on loan or for free consistently is beyond me.

3 players sold for profit in 7 years says it all. It is that simple.
 
OK. So APR is the wrong term. But we are paying 9% interest on debt p/a right?

Slightly less, 7.5% + 1% or LIBOR, whichever is the higher. So, at the moment, 8.5%. Given that even blue chip companies can only borrow at about LIBOR + 4%, this is high, getting towards junk, but by no means the highest I've come across.
 
Can all the posters who think Short is a good owner but has just been let down by a series of mangers list their names here.

When Short finally fucks off and it becomes clear for all to see what a disaster he's been I think it would be helpful to have a record of who the most gullible / stupid supporters are.

Cheers.
Full respect mate. I like you fully acknowledge the root of the problem.
 
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I think of course he is ultimately to blame but he has been a bit unlucky, I think we almost certainly shouldn't be as bad as we are for the money he has allowed to be invested. Of course he must take an element of the blame for his appointments but a fair few of those were well supported at the time.
As with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes that will probably be taken on here.
 
I think of course he is ultimately to blame but he has been a bit unlucky, I think we almost certainly shouldn't be as bad as we are for the money he has allowed to be invested. Of course he must take an element of the blame for his appointments but a fair few of those were well supported at the time.
As with most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes that will probably be taken on here.
Your a cracking poster mate and I enjoy your posts because you do in the main speak a lot of sense. However, when you use the word "unlucky" with Shorts reign, that really does not wash. He can't be " unlucky' for 7 plus years, h can't be "unlucky" with every manager he appoints etc etc.
 
Your a cracking poster mate and I enjoy your posts because you do in the main speak a lot of sense. However, when you use the word "unlucky" with Shorts reign, that really does not wash. He can't be " unlucky' for 7 plus years, h can't be "unlucky" with every manager he appoints etc etc.

This imo.
 
Your a cracking poster mate and I enjoy your posts because you do in the main speak a lot of sense. However, when you use the word "unlucky" with Shorts reign, that really does not wash. He can't be " unlucky' for 7 plus years, h can't be "unlucky" with every manager he appoints etc etc.
True I probably woudn't say that with all his appointments I think and thought at the time that the whole PDC and RDF think was really poor. However having allowed such money to be spent by Bruce at the time and MON I think he is entitled to feel a bit unlucky that we weren't in a better position and I wouldn't blame him particularly up to that point.

Cheers for the compliment as well!!!

This imo.
Get in I trust you mean me being a cracking poster rather than the short stuff
 
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True I probably woudn't say that with all his appointments I think and thought at the time that the whole PDC and RDF think was really poor. However having allowed such money to be spent by Bruce at the time and MON I think he is entitled to feel a bit unlucky that we weren't in a better position and I wouldn't blame him particularly up to that point.

Cheers for the compliment as well!!!


Get in I trust you mean me being a cracking poster rather than the short stuff

Err...... okay?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Can all the posters who think Short is a good owner but has just been let down by a series of mangers list their names here.

When Short finally fucks off and it becomes clear for all to see what a disaster he's been I think it would be helpful to have a record of who the most gullible / stupid supporters are.

Cheers.
Whoever is to blame it's us, the long suffering fans who are the bedrock of this club. Let's not forget that and stick together, because without us there is no club.
 
I don't blame Short.

He has gave all of the managers money to spend. It's not his fault it's been spent on shit.
 
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