where has my country gone?


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Well, it's counterbalancing in the sense that there's a net gain/loss of people (having watched the Andrew Marr doc about the census the other day, we're not very good at keeping stats on those moving away long term) but you're right that we're losing skilled/intelligent workers. Not all immigrants are unskilled though - as Bad_mother says, Aus/NZ use quality control, Cameron seems to be suggesting straight numbers, presumably because it's easier and cheaper.

all a bit shutting the stable door...what abouthe MILLIONS that have arrived, the pressure on schools ,gps etc . mad
 
Over the past two years, I've spent quite a bit of time dealing with various consuls and UKBA regarding visa and other immigration issues. Most of the recent migration into the UK has been by citizens of EU member states looking for work. They work, they pay taxes and so contribute towards keeping idling, workshy British c*nts in beer and fags. Personally, the idea of the EU's migrant work force helping to fund our wasters makes me feel warm and comfortable about the EU.

Anyone from outwith the EU has to provide evidence that they have the means to support themselves before a visa will be granted. I've seen loads of declined visa applications on the grounds of failure to provide evidence that the applicant can support themselves.
 
People have been bailing out of the UK for decades, its nothing new and its no more popular now than it was 15 years ago.

Warmer climates, something new, leave behind personal tragedy, a new start...

That has me sold. If I could only convince the wife & daughter.
 
Over the past two years, I've spent quite a bit of time dealing with various consuls and UKBA regarding visa and other immigration issues. Most of the recent migration into the UK has been by citizens of EU member states looking for work. They work, they pay taxes and so contribute towards keeping idling, workshy British c*nts in beer and fags. Personally, the idea of the EU's migrant work force helping to fund our wasters makes me feel warm and comfortable about the EU.

Anyone from outwith the EU has to provide evidence that they have the means to support themselves before a visa will be granted. I've seen loads of declined visa applications on the grounds of failure to provide evidence that the applicant can support themselves.
where abouts if i may ask?
 
Over the past two years, I've spent quite a bit of time dealing with various consuls and UKBA regarding visa and other immigration issues. Most of the recent migration into the UK has been by citizens of EU member states looking for work. They work, they pay taxes and so contribute towards keeping idling, workshy British c*nts in beer and fags. Personally, the idea of the EU's migrant work force helping to fund our wasters makes me feel warm and comfortable about the EU.

Anyone from outwith the EU has to provide evidence that they have the means to support themselves before a visa will be granted. I've seen loads of declined visa applications on the grounds of failure to provide evidence that the applicant can support themselves.

Is that not under the Points Based System that was introduced by Labour?
 
The UK's cap on immigration threatens the country's future as a centre of scientific excellence, a group of Nobel prize-winning scientists has warned.

In a letter to the Times, the eight UK academics said the visa curbs would deprive science and industry of talent.

They said it was a "sad reflection" that scientists and engineers could not be afforded the same exception to the rules as Premier League footballers.

The Home Office said it had consulted widely on the immigration cap.

It introduced a limit for work visas for non-EU citizens in June.

A key part of the Conservative election manifesto, the temporary cap of 24,100 will be replaced by permanent measures from April 2011.

In their letter, the academics wrote: "The government has seen fit to introduce an exception to the rules for Premier League footballers.

"It is a sad reflection of our priorities as a nation if we cannot afford the same recognition for elite scientists and engineers."

They added: "International collaborations underlie 40% of the UK's scientific output, but would become far more difficult if we were to constrict our borders.

"The UK produces nearly 10% of the world's scientific output with only 1% of its population; we punch above our weight because we can engage with excellence wherever it occurs.

"The UK must not isolate itself from the increasingly globalised world of research - British science depends on it."

The CBI, the Royal Society and university vice-chancellors have already voiced concerns about the immigration cap.
Thinnest material

Sir Harry Kroto, who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that one of his own researchers had been refused permission to study at Cambridge University under the rules and will now stay at a US university.

"The UK loses out and in the future we can see the UK can only survive on its intellectual property, rather than as a country that provides things, with countries like India and China providing things more cheaply, so we need to look at that," he said.

"If one looks over the years, one quarter of the Nobel Prizes that came to the UK were won by immigrants from outside. It's probably very unwise to not look very carefully at the scientists, engineers and technologists who could come to this country and give this country the extra support it needs to compete in the future."

Liberal Democrat Business Secretary Vince Cable has said the measure is doing "huge damage" to British firms.

Downing Street said the limit would be implemented in a way that still allowed the brightest and best to come to Britain.

Minister for Immigration Damian Green said Britain could benefit from migration but not uncontrolled migration.

"Britain remains open for business and we will continue to attract and retain the brightest and the best people who can make a real difference to our economic growth, but unlimited migration places unacceptable pressure on public services.

"We have consulted with business and other interested parties on how the limit should work and have also asked the Migration Advisory Committee to consult on what the actual limit should be. These consultations are now closed and we will announce the findings in due course."

Two of the scientists behind the letter are Russian migrants, Professor Andre Geim and Professor Konstantin Novoselov, of the University of Manchester, who won the Nobel prize for physics on Tuesday.

They invented graphene, the world's thinnest material which is 200 times stronger than steel.

The other signatories are Sir Paul Nurse, Sir Tim Hunt, Sir Martin Evans, Sir Harry Kroto, Sir John Walker and Sir John Sulston.

Gulp.
 
Anyone from outwith the EU has to provide evidence that they have the means to support themselves before a visa will be granted. I've seen loads of declined visa applications on the grounds of failure to provide evidence that the applicant can support themselves.

That's the problem though, being able to support themselves shouldn't be enough, they should have to be able to bring something above ordinary to the table. Hardly any of the people on here would get in to New Zealand without having family there for example.

Edit: I agree with your point about the EU though, although I wish we could whip the workshy into jobs instead. We don't have a choice there obviously, it's the immigration from outside the EU that baffles me.
 
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That's the problem though, being able to support themselves shouldn't be enough, they should have to be able to bring something above ordinary to the table. Hardly any of the people on here would get in to New Zealand without having family there for example.

S'pretty easy to get into New Zealand actually, if you have a job lined up. And if you didn't, why go? And you can get residency if you live there for two yearsish I think.
 
Before people try and smooth over the subject because its in the 'Daily Mail', here is the Gaurdian reporting on the same speech...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/14/cameron-immigration-speech-coalition-differences

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/14/david-cameron-immigrants-learn-english

Oh i see, too late for that already. :roll:

The requirement that non-EU immigrants speak English was introduced by Labour, certainly for Tier 2 immigrants under the Points Based System. Under PBS, non-EU migrants except in Tier 1 must have a sponsor. The tiers are:

Tier 1 - for highly skilled workers, such as scientists and entrepreneurs
Tier 2 - for skilled workers with a job offer, such as teachers and nurses
Tier 3 - (currently suspended) for low-skilled workers filling specific temporary labour shortages, such as construction workers for a particular project
Tier 4 - for students
Tier 5 - for temporary workers, such as musicians coming to play in a concert, and participants in the youth mobility scheme.

This system was introduced about 3 years ago IIRC was based on the highly-regarded Australian system.
 
S'pretty easy to get into New Zealand actually, if you have a job lined up. And if you didn't, why go? And you can get residency if you live there for two yearsish I think.

Well my family live out there so I've got first hand experience of this, and yes it's easy if you've got a job lined up, but that's not easy. The employer has to prove that he couldn't possibly hire a Kiwi to do the job before he can hire a foreigner who doesn't yet have a visa
 
Its the EU immigration that bothers me. We are getting overwhelmed with the fuckers.

I think that's the issue that really generates the heat in the argument. Non-EU immigration has been pretty well-controlled both by Labour with the introduction of PBS and by the Tories in how they have used existing powers (drafted by Labour) under PBS e.g. to impose caps in numbers.

Privately, I suspect many former Labour politicians would agree that they had messed up in not limiting Polish immigration when Poland joined the EU in the way they have done for Romanians and Bulgarians.
 
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