Vaux site......

Paddy O'Dors said:
When did ONE NE disappear? It's no coincidence.
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Abolished in 2012 I believe. Their remit given to Homes and Communities Agency, and then latterly Homes England. These organisations are only now really interested in delivering housing targets not economic regeneration.

I think ONE North East funded the acquisition of the Vaux site (or partly).
 


Osklen said:
Abolished in 2012 I believe. Their remit given to Homes and Communities Agency, and then latterly Homes England. These organisations are only now really interested in delivering housing targets not economic regeneration.

I think ONE North East funded the acquisition of the Vaux site (or partly).
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Sunderland now competes for stuff on a stand alone basis. And it pains me to say it but the Tories getting rid of the RDA was a blessing.
 
Osklen said:
Probably the failure of Sunderland Council has been its reliance on or assumptions that the private sector would deliver the various development sites across the city when the sites are arguably not viable from a private investor stand point. Due to sites not being viable developers (Carillion, thornfield etc..) couldn’t get schemes to stack up so would either have to wait for economic conditions to change or expect the council to underwrite any risk.

Whilst the council haven’t actually owned fully some of the sites they wished to develop until recently (Vaux), It would appear that to date that the council have taken a very much risk averse stand point but this may have changed following the buy out of Siglion. That is assuming of course they use the company to continue to
Build on the momentum of the Beam and the new civic.

Also it must be put into context that secondary regional towns and cities up and down the country are struggling and Sunderland is no exception to that.
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Carillion and Thornfield went tits up. Fuck all to do with viable sites
 
Osklen said:
Potential Opportunity to lobby for brexit fall out cash I guess, on the basis of it being a bit of a poster boy for brexit.
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Just stop putting a layers of unnecessary bureaucracy in. There was nowt worse than gannin to Newburn Riverside and hoying a bid in knowing you up were up against it cos the funds were already paying for a big house in Jesmond.
 
Boris Bear said:
Carillion and Thornfield went tits up. Fuck all to do with viable sites
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I agree, but in both cases the developments take longer due to the viability of the scheme. For instance in markets such as London / Manchester etc profit levels and market confidence mean that developments can happen at pace.
Paddy O'Dors said:
Just stop putting a layers of unnecessary bureaucracy in. There was nowt worse than gannin to Newburn Riverside and hoying a bid in knowing you up were up against it cos the funds were already paying for a big house in Jesmond.
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Very true and the fact that any funding was often linked to any number of KPI’s.
 
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Osklen said:
It’s because the rent that office development can achieve in Sunderland is less than the cost to build, due in the main to demand and to a degree the quality of office accommodation available.

For instance a rent for office space in Newcastle is probably north of £22sq ft maybe even £25sq ft these days whereas in it Sunderland would be c. £16 sq ft, but build cost is largely the same between both areas. Land values will be higher in Newcastle but not significantly more than Sunderland. This allows the developer a sufficient profit to commit capital to the scheme with enough comfort that they can let space. It’s worth noting that even in Newcastle I don’t think there has been much speculative office buildings been constructed, as developers tend only to build once they have a pre-let of a sufficient percentage of the building.

similarly it’s why apartment developments tend not to work in Sunderland as the cost to build is too high against the market value.
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There’s a Massive apartment block being developed in Sunderland and Newcastle have a massive office block being built atm and another 14 storey one starting soon.
 
the boot said:
There’s a Massive apartment block being developed in Sunderland and Newcastle have a massive office block being built atm and another 14 storey one starting soon.
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Which one in Sunderland the one at the bottom of sunniside? If so it’s a refurb of an existing building and is being marketed at investors for single studio rooms of c £50k. It appears on the face of it to be resi scheme investment or social housing sector.

As for Newcastle that’s what I am trying to convey it’s a different property market to Sunderland and the two can’t / shouldn’t be compared.
 
Osklen said:
Which one in Sunderland the one at the bottom of sunniside? If so it’s a refurb of an existing building and is being marketed at investors for single studio rooms of c £50k. It appears on the face of it to be resi scheme investment or social housing sector.

As for Newcastle that’s what I am trying to convey it’s a different property market to Sunderland and the two can’t / shouldn’t be compared.
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The Sunderland development is being targeted for students I believe.
 
royaldragon said:
The Sunderland development is being targeted for students I believe.
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Sorry that’s what I meant when I said resi. Should read my messages properly.

Student accommodation makes sense however the student resi’s schemes that I’ve seen aren’t quite the standard that an institutional investor would invest in.
 
Sid James Park said:
Too many past missed oppirtunities.A viewing tower, ( remember the spirit of Sunderland proposed at Holmeside) an ice rink arena,free city centre parking,Metro links to outlying areas,a modern railway station,Vaux - Sheepfolds footbridge,high rise buildings on Vaux (giving a city skyline effect),mp s who will give this city a true voice not three Labour female champagne socialists who dont even come close to discussing the real Sunderland issues which need addressing whethet that be their ignorance or maybe they are just out of touch .
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Wasn't that "Spirit of Sunderland' viewing tower just an April Fools wind up in The Echo?
 
Osklen said:
Agreed that the likes of Doxford Park should be built in the city, although there are distinct differences in that I believe Doxford Park when built was one of the very first enterprise zones which basically meant that business rates were exempt for something like 5 years or that the developer could get capital allowances back as part of the build which incentivised the developers at that time to build. Vaux is not and has not been allocated such a status (this needs to be done I believe either through national government or local enterprise partnership these days) but the A19 corridor has been.

Also to add that doxford park was successful in attracting businesses as it could offer a parking space for ever 200 sq ft built, which is considerable, against city centre sites which is something like 1 space per 1000 sq ft built. Parking is also generally free as it is cheap surface level parking.

Finally you can’t just pick doxford park up and move it into the city centre as many of the businesses will have 10 or 15 year leases.

Just in respect to your point that Sunderland should be a cheaper alternative to locate businesses then it currently is, the issue is two fold one that it is currently too cheap for developers to make a development viable, and secondly it’s trying to persuade businesses to locate in the city centre when it is competing with many other places even in the region nevermind nationally.
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Very insightful I must say, if not inhibitory. May I ask how you are privvy to such insight btw?
 
citybythesea said:
Very insightful I must say, if not inhibitory. May I ask how you are privvy to such insight btw?
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I work in consultancy sector which supports property development.

I must say that I am not saying that the council are not blameless is any of this but more that there are contributory factors which have halted development in some cases and that it is not simply a black and white situation.

I think the telling thing is that if the private sector wanted to be in Sunderland then it would have happened without the council help, but is evident / apparent that it has not happened. The council could have took a more active role but with Sunderland arc (I believe imposes upon them) and then the creation of Siglion (of their own doing) then they have let those organisations take the leading role in developing the various city centre sites.
 
Osklen said:
I work in consultancy sector which supports property development.

I must say that I am not saying that the council are not blameless is any of this but more that there are contributory factors which have halted development in some cases and that it is not simply a black and white situation.

I think the telling thing is that if the private sector wanted to be in Sunderland then it would have happened without the council help, but is evident / apparent that it has not happened. The council could have took a more active role but with Sunderland arc (I believe imposes upon them) and then the creation of Siglion (of their own doing) then they have let those organisations take the leading role in developing the various city centre sites.
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Ok, Could you elaborate on what those contributory factors are?
 

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