Vaux - it'll never happen!

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Have pride in Sunderland.
I do

18 years since Vaux shut and we've finally got a few bits on Meccano to show for it. Yet look of the pace of change in Durham. The Milburngate shopping centre has already demolished inside a few months and the steel structure for the new development is already in place. The old passport office and National Savings buildings are also being flattened. Bars like a Pitcher & Piano, various restaurants and TWO cinema complexes have been agreed for the sites and should be open by 2019 with luxury apartments complementing the developments.

Durham appears to be finding private investment with relative ease compared to Sunderland. Why is that?

Durham :lol::lol::lol::lol:

18 years since Vaux shut and we've finally got a few bits on Meccano to show for it. Yet look of the pace of change in Durham. The Milburngate shopping centre has already demolished inside a few months and the steel structure for the new development is already in place. The old passport office and National Savings buildings are also being flattened. Bars like a Pitcher & Piano, various restaurants and TWO cinema complexes have been agreed for the sites and should be open by 2019 with luxury apartments complementing the developments.

Durham appears to be finding private investment with relative ease compared to Sunderland. Why is that?


Sunderland:
* Build a landmark bridge
* Expand the port - run a new road to it and take the Nissan business away from Port Of Tyne.
* Build an International Automotive Manufacturing Park to employ an additional 20k skilled employees.
* Build executive housing at Chapelgarth.
* Build executive housing at Burdon Lane.
* Build a large multi use retail/leisure/housing development at Seaburn.
* Redevelop Vaux, replete with a landmark building.
* Build a town square.
* Build a software city hub.
* Bring town centre buildings (Phoenix/Crown/Angel/Cassaton house) into re-use, renovating them for student accommodation).
* Extend The Bridges
* Create a cultural quarter.
* Convert the old fire station to a performing arts centre.
* Build a new 800 capacity auditorium in the cultural quarter.
* Build a 'Beacon Of Light' to serve as a community resource and a 4000 capacity arena for concerts.
* Increase Hotel beds as a sign of new found confidence - 8 new hotels should cover it.
* Get Sunderland on the East coast mainline rail route.
* Build a FabLab innovation hub at the university to connect us to 20 top universities around the world including MIT.
* Keep expanding the largest international airshow in Europe.
* Keep expanding the sunderland illuminations.
* Bid for City Of Culture status.
* Win the bid for starting port for the 2018 Tall Ships Race.
* Build a hub for Regional Government to make Sunderland the capital city of the north east.
* Expand Nissan's investment in the area.
* Bring offshore renewables industry to Sunderland.
* Create a Heritage Zone to bring historic building back into use.
* Continue to redevelop our 7 award winning parks.
* Redevelop Roker Marina and sea front.
* Redevelop the train station and Monkwearmouth museum.
* Build a new Northern Gallery for Contemporary art.
* Build a new college in the centre of town.
* Build a £6m youth zone building in Holmeside.
* Redevelop the sheepfolds.

What was that about Durham again??
 
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I do



Durham :lol::lol::lol::lol:


Sunderland:
* Build a landmark bridge
* Expand the port - run a new road to it and take the Nissan business away from Port Of Tyne.
* Build an International Automotive Manufacturing Park to employ an additional 20k skilled employees.
* Build executive housing at Chapelgarth.
* Build executive housing at Burdon Lane.
* Build a large multi use retail/leisure/housing development at Seaburn.
* Redevelop Vaux, replete with a landmark building.
* Build a town square.
* Build a software city hub.
* Bring town centre buildings (Phoenix/Crown/Angel/Cassaton house) into re-use, renovating them for student accommodation).
* Extend The Bridges
* Create a cultural quarter.
* Convert the old fire station to a performing arts centre.
* Build a new 800 capacity auditorium in the cultural quarter.
* Build a 'Beacon Of Light' to serve as a community resource and a 4000 capacity arena for concerts.
* Increase Hotel beds as a sign of new found confidence - 8 new hotels should cover it.
* Get Sunderland on the East coast mainline rail route.
* Build a FabLab innovation hub at the university to connect us to 20 top universities around the world including MIT.
* Keep expanding the largest international airshow in Europe.
* Keep expanding the sunderland illuminations.
* Bid for City Of Culture status.
* Win the bid for starting port for the 2018 Tall Ships Race.
* Build a hub for Regional Government to make Sunderland the capital city of the north east.
* Expand Nissan's investment in the area.
* Bring offshore renewables industry to Sunderland.
* Create a Heritage Zone to bring historic building back into use.
* Continue to redevelop our 7 award winning parks.
* Redevelop Roker Marina and sea front.
* Redevelop the train station and Monkwearmouth museum.
* Build a new Northern Gallery for Contemporary art.
* Build a new college in the centre of town.
* Build a £6m youth zone building in Holmeside.
* Redevelop the sheepfolds.

What was that about Durham again??
You bothered to write all that? Give yourself a sticker.

I'm comparing the malaise that has been the Vaux site for the last 18 years to the speed at which Durham's major 'refit' is taking place. Put it this way, by 2019 Durham will have flattened and redeveloped a huge area of their city (the aforementioned Milburngate\passport office\National Savings developments) - a site of comparable size to the Vaux site.

By 2019 the Vaux site will have one office built according to current projections. Marvellous. If they can attract further investment and redevelop that site by 2019 that will be brilliant. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
You bothered to write all that? Give yourself a sticker.

I'm comparing the malaise that has been the Vaux site for the last 18 years to the speed at which Durham's major 'refit' is taking place. Put it this way, by 2019 Durham will have flattened and redeveloped a huge area of their city (the aforementioned Milburngate\passport office\National Savings developments) - a site of comparable size to the Vaux site.

By 2019 the Vaux site will have one office built according to current projections. Marvellous. If they can attract further investment and redevelop that site by 2019 that will be brilliant. But I'm not holding my breath.

shame.
 
You bothered to write all that? Give yourself a sticker.

I'm comparing the malaise that has been the Vaux site for the last 18 years to the speed at which Durham's major 'refit' is taking place. Put it this way, by 2019 Durham will have flattened and redeveloped a huge area of their city (the aforementioned Milburngate\passport office\National Savings developments) - a site of comparable size to the Vaux site.

By 2019 the Vaux site will have one office built according to current projections. Marvellous. If they can attract further investment and redevelop that site by 2019 that will be brilliant. But I'm not holding my breath.
Ah right....you're comparing the whole city of durham (where they are pulling stuff down) to the single site of Vaux (where they are building stuff). That makes sense.

Durham wants to hope that Sunderland doesn't rejoin County Durham, if they want to retain their place as the main city of durham
 
I do



Durham :lol::lol::lol::lol:




Sunderland:
* Build a landmark bridge
* Expand the port - run a new road to it and take the Nissan business away from Port Of Tyne.
* Build an International Automotive Manufacturing Park to employ an additional 20k skilled employees.
* Build executive housing at Chapelgarth.
* Build executive housing at Burdon Lane.
* Build a large multi use retail/leisure/housing development at Seaburn.
* Redevelop Vaux, replete with a landmark building.
* Build a town square.
* Build a software city hub.
* Bring town centre buildings (Phoenix/Crown/Angel/Cassaton house) into re-use, renovating them for student accommodation).
* Extend The Bridges
* Create a cultural quarter.
* Convert the old fire station to a performing arts centre.
* Build a new 800 capacity auditorium in the cultural quarter.
* Build a 'Beacon Of Light' to serve as a community resource and a 4000 capacity arena for concerts.
* Increase Hotel beds as a sign of new found confidence - 8 new hotels should cover it.
* Get Sunderland on the East coast mainline rail route.
* Build a FabLab innovation hub at the university to connect us to 20 top universities around the world including MIT.
* Keep expanding the largest international airshow in Europe.
* Keep expanding the sunderland illuminations.
* Bid for City Of Culture status.
* Win the bid for starting port for the 2018 Tall Ships Race.
* Build a hub for Regional Government to make Sunderland the capital city of the north east.
* Expand Nissan's investment in the area.
* Bring offshore renewables industry to Sunderland.
* Create a Heritage Zone to bring historic building back into use.
* Continue to redevelop our 7 award winning parks.
* Redevelop Roker Marina and sea front.
* Redevelop the train station and Monkwearmouth museum.
* Build a new Northern Gallery for Contemporary art.
* Build a new college in the centre of town.
* Build a £6m youth zone building in Holmeside.
* Redevelop the sheepfolds.

What was that about Durham again??
There is clearly a lot happening in Sunderland after30 years of decline. Despite what is happening the centre is still a bit of a hole and seems completely dead - Fawcett Street used to be buzzing with Binns etc. and now it is absolutely appalling with lovely buildings in disrepair - same with Holmeside. I am therefore very interested in the Heritage Zone - I read that Sunderland is one of 10 areas in the country designated and that Fawcett Street will be the focus but when it was announced couldn't see any practical ways they would do this, or any detail on funding etc. Until Fawcett Street (and to a lesser extent Holmeside) is developed into a place that people want to go for a reason other than catching the bus Sunderland will not be the City Centre that it wants to be and should be.
 
There is clearly a lot happening in Sunderland after30 years of decline. Despite what is happening the centre is still a bit of a hole and seems completely dead - Fawcett Street used to be buzzing with Binns etc. and now it is absolutely appalling with lovely buildings in disrepair - same with Holmeside. I am therefore very interested in the Heritage Zone - I read that Sunderland is one of 10 areas in the country designated and that Fawcett Street will be the focus but when it was announced couldn't see any practical ways they would do this, or any detail on funding etc. Until Fawcett Street (and to a lesser extent Holmeside) is developed into a place that people want to go for a reason other than catching the bus Sunderland will not be the City Centre that it wants to be and should be.

Holmeside is where the new Youth Zone building will be going. That will dominate things but the street will still be down at heel and will need more. Once upon a time it was all Jewish retailers but they upped and left to Manchester and London.

I really think that Blandford Street is made to have a glass roof an become an arcade of sorts with smart and uniform shop fronts, cafés, bars and restaurants with seating in the middle of the street. Something like that would give a focus to that end of town. There is also a large plot of land up side the civic centre which is up for development (mixed use) so again this extends the town centre in that direction.
 
Holmeside is where the new Youth Zone building will be going. That will dominate things but the street will still be down at heel and will need more. Once upon a time it was all Jewish retailers but they upped and left to Manchester and London.

I really think that Blandford Street is made to have a glass roof an become an arcade of sorts with smart and uniform shop fronts, cafés, bars and restaurants with seating in the middle of the street. Something like that would give a focus to that end of town. There is also a large plot of land up side the civic centre which is up for development (mixed use) so again this extends the town centre in that direction.
I just went on the Heritage Action Zone site and it has listed Fawcett Street, High Street East and West and Church Street East as the areas it wants to focus on - there are some fantastic buildings which if you look up you can see bushes growing out of the brickwork. It all needs doing and Sunderland has a great layout to develop. My frustration is how slow things go. I noticed for the first time a crane in Sunderland next to the old Fire Station - its a great indicator of development. Yet go up Newcastle and there are constantly 5 or 6 cranes erected on various developments. Sunderland doesn't need to compete against Newcastle, it is rightly developing its own unique image. My concern is that in 5 or 10 years we will still be talking about developments as opposed to seeing something close to a completed re-development.

Sorry to keep harping on but I just read up on the Youth Zone you mentioned - it was announced in November 2015 and 18 months later where is it? The pace is so slow. It sounds great but where is it? You see housing developments such as those in Laygate in Shields and they seem to throw houses up each week - Housing Developer realise that once they have laid out the money on materials and wages they want the buildings up as quickly as possible to be able to convert that into cash. Public sector developments never seem to have any urgency. Look how long it took to complete Seaburn seafront.
 
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I just went on the Heritage Action Zone site and it has listed Fawcett Street, High Street East and West and Church Street East as the areas it wants to focus on - there are some fantastic buildings which if you look up you can see bushes growing out of the brickwork. It all needs doing and Sunderland has a great layout to develop. My frustration is how slow things go. I noticed for the first time a crane in Sunderland next to the old Fire Station - its a great indicator of development. Yet go up Newcastle and there are constantly 5 or 6 cranes erected on various developments. Sunderland doesn't need to compete against Newcastle, it is rightly developing its own unique image. My concern is that in 5 or 10 years we will still be talking about developments as opposed to seeing something close to a completed re-development.
I think what Newcastle did is build momentum and it snowballed. Tyne and Wear development corporation directed all their investment into Newcastle, particularly the quayside and it started from there. There is as much if not more going on in sunderland with regards development today...it has to snowball to be a success. The whole Siglion business plan is built on starting development, attracting further inward investment which will then finance further development. The signs are good but nobody should expect us to start out by building a Guggenheim or the Petronas Towers. We could build the hanging gardens of Babylon in mowbray park and people would complain about hay fever.
 
I think what Newcastle did is build momentum and it snowballed. Tyne and Wear development corporation directed all their investment into Newcastle, particularly the quayside and it started from there. There is as much if not more going on in sunderland with regards development today...it has to snowball to be a success. The whole Siglion business plan is built on starting development, attracting further inward investment which will then finance further development. The signs are good but nobody should expect us to start out by building a Guggenheim or the Petronas Towers. We could build the hanging gardens of Babylon in mowbray park and people would complain about hay fever.
Totally agree - they could move faster though. There seems to be a lag of 18 months between any announcement and commencement of activity - to get momentum you need to have an element of pace about the developments. The Siglion plan is fine but they have been onsite for months now and only just got the steel up. I am fully supportive of all these developments and think Sunderland is on the move - the key as you have stated is private sector investment. I hope we can see quite a changing image over the next 12-18 months. BTW do you know if the City of Culture winner is announced at the end of the year or before - that would be a massive boost.
 
Totally agree - they could move faster though. There seems to be a lag of 18 months between any announcement and commencement of activity - to get momentum you need to have an element of pace about the developments. The Siglion plan is fine but they have been onsite for months now and only just got the steel up. I am fully supportive of all these developments and think Sunderland is on the move - the key as you have stated is private sector investment. I hope we can see quite a changing image over the next 12-18 months. BTW do you know if the City of Culture winner is announced at the end of the year or before - that would be a massive boost.
End of October I think...or maybe start of November, but around then
 
I think you're vastly underestimating the impact office developments could have on our city centre.

I'm all for it! The more the merrier. I'm one who believes in centralising things into an urban core. The city needs people living and working in it. I was saying it was regrettable they're were building a offices upwards to maximize the total potential of the site. But I was informed they'd rather speculate on lower buildings as they'd be cheaper to rent out......
 
I'm all for it! The more the merrier. I'm one who believes in centralising things into an urban core. The city needs people living and working in it. I was saying it was regrettable they're weren't building a offices upwards to maximize the total potential of the site. But I was informed they'd rather speculate on lower buildings as they'd be cheaper to rent out......
 
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