University lecturers strikes

CEF

Winger
This strikes a disgrace my daughters in her last year at york going to miss her last 8 lectures , they still want there 9 grand though. Why don't the scumbags do something that will effect them or the uni instead of the students futures. Not normally against a strike but this one is so so wrong. Notice they don't strike during the 4 month summer break they get. Universities these days just treat students like a cash cow
They don't get a 4 month summer break.

Vent your anger at the University. They are responsible, the ones treating their institute like a profit driven company, treating their staff crap, and treating students as cash cows.

Costing them a fair wedge these strike the last couple of years.
 

Mackem00

Striker
shes a student, not an employee. there is no picket line to cross.
I'm baffled by this like. The students using the library has literally no baring on the strike action. It's like picketing patients going to attend hospital appointments.
Giving up 3 weeks pay is quite some commitment to the cause mind. fair play.
 
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Reedie8610

Full Back
Is it not the nature of a strike to cause disruption, show their value to their employers to try for better pay and conditions?

These ‘scumbags’ have just had their pensions slashed and have had under inflation pay rises for many years.

Using your logic they could just strike overnight, but it would be the lamest strike ever. It actually started with short non-disruptive strikes, but these were laughed at by University management, so now they are getting bigger and more disruptive.
Don't disagree but why punish the students, it costs a fortune. Why don't they do it start of the year rather than when it's most important. My daughter has just been abandoned by the lecturers. Which makes it a lame strike cos the university won't care they've had there money. Do it at the start students would look to go elsewhere
They don't get a 4 month summer break.

Vent your anger at the University. They are responsible, the ones treating their institute like a profit driven company, treating their staff crap, and treating students as cash cows.

Costing them a fair wedge these strike the last couple of years.
Won't cost them as much as it's costing the 3rd year students it's they're future
 

SAFC Wilks

Striker
There is a picket line and they intimidate any student who crosses it. There was one last time.
I suppose there's a chance that you know better than her though.
How are they intimidating her? Are they pleading her not to go into the library and shouting abuse at her?

Not having a go, just surprised they’ll intimidate someone who just wants to use the library.

Tell her to go to the library and if the picket line does say something to her, advise her to tell them to fuck off.
 
How are they intimidating her? Are they pleading her not to go into the library and shouting abuse at her?

Not having a go, just surprised they’ll intimidate someone who just wants to use the library.

Tell her to go to the library and if the picket line does say something to her, advise her to tell them to fuck off.
I was at London University at the time of the miners strikes and I've seen how arsehole students can go on. They used to rattle buckets for the striking miners and would intimidate & abuse anyone who didn't contribute, I did exactly what you said and told them to fuck off. I've told my daughter to do exactly the same.
I'm baffled by this like. The students using the library has literally no baring on the strike action. It's like picketing patients going to attend hospital appointments.
Giving up 3 weeks pay is quite some commitment to the cause mind. fair play.
You can be as baffled as you want, maybe I should get her to take some photos of them? Just to prove she's not lying because she's really doing shite at her course and needs an excuse for when she fails?
 
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DaveH

Striker
Don't disagree but why punish the students, it costs a fortune. Why don't they do it start of the year rather than when it's most important. My daughter has just been abandoned by the lecturers. Which makes it a lame strike cos the university won't care they've had there money. Do it at the start students would look to go elsewhere

Won't cost them as much as it's costing the 3rd year students it's they're future
They did. This is one of a series of strikes. There were strikes in Feb 2018, with a 61% student backing. There were further strikes this academic year in November and December 2019. The Universities didn’t budge and again there were support from students.

Most of the reason for the next round of strikes is in response to the publication of the official stance of the Universities a few weeks ago. Currently pay rises are frozen while this is all in dispute. You say most important, but for most Universities, exams are May/June time. The closer we get to that, the more important it becomes. Wait until after and it is holiday/conference season where striking professional services staff will have an impact but not academics. After that we are looking at late October. That is a long time to continue to have pay frozen.

Strikes have to be disruptive to have impact and it appears a lot of the students know that.
 
They did. This is one of a series of strikes. There were strikes in Feb 2018, with a 61% student backing. There were further strikes this academic year in November and December 2019. The Universities didn’t budge and again there were support from students.

Most of the reason for the next round of strikes is in response to the publication of the official stance of the Universities a few weeks ago. Currently pay rises are frozen while this is all in dispute. You say most important, but for most Universities, exams are May/June time. The closer we get to that, the more important it becomes. Wait until after and it is holiday/conference season where striking professional services staff will have an impact but not academics. After that we are looking at late October. That is a long time to continue to have pay frozen.

Strikes have to be disruptive to have impact and it appears a lot of the students know that.
What is your understanding of the reason whey they are striking? My daughters lecturer told her the reason, and fwiw my daughter backs them 100%.
 

Reedie8610

Full Back
They're overpaid anyway, but I'm not against them taking action IRS just a disgrace how they're treating the student it proves they don't care about the students. Just money grabbing
 

DaveH

Striker
What is your understanding of the reason whey they are striking? My daughters lecturer told her the reason, and fwiw my daughter backs them 100%.
There are two key reasons, pay and pensions.

There have been a number of changes to the University pension scheme in recent years, that mean people get less. There are further proposed changes because there is the fear of a funding deficit in the USS pension fund. USS have said they need more money coming in, Universities have said existing staff must foot 100% of that bill.

A quick bit of history is that University pensions have always been pretty good and they were one of the last sectors to stop issuing final salary pensions, long after various financial bodies issued warnings about being able to fund them. Staff who were on that scheme had that taken away, which give one cut, but realistically I think most recognized that had to happen. However before this happened, it was common practice in many institutes to give staff a big pay increase for the last year before they retired, artificially inflating their pension.

The University sector is traditionally lower paid than equivalent jobs in industry, but one thing that made it worth while was the good pension. Recent cuts to that and a move to essentially take away wages from existing staff to pay for the mistakes of the past, without those responsible paying anything, has been seen as very unfair.

In addition to that, staff have had less than inflation pay rises for a number of years now so people are being paid less, for many the workload has gone up and if the Universities win, they will also take the extra reduction to pay for retirees on very healthy incomes.

Add a few other things, and it starts to put our Universities in pretty bad health. Brexit has been a big problem so far and could make things worse. Most Universities depend on research grants from various EU projects and initiatives. That has dried up. With uncertainty over settled status, there have been a lot of very well regarded foreign academics and professional staff leave. Many of these have taken their research teams with them, and the research grant money (including the non-EU funded) has followed them. This has been a loss of both expertise and income to a lot of Universities, with long term effects. Many research grants were only given to some Universities because of a particular big name academic.

On the student side, the birth rate in 2000-2003 took a dramatic drop. Fast forward 18 years (the typical starting age of students), it has left many struggling to fill spaces. Usually when times are a little hard, that would be topped up by foreign students, particularly those from the EU. However with Brexit unresolved, the UK is now seen as high risk, so many foreign students are opting to go elsewhere.

If Universities then start to lose a lot of home grown staff over the pay and pension problems, then higher education for the next generation of students is going to be poorer, which then can have a longer term economic impact.

The strikes are effectively to stop the pay and pension cuts but also many of the staff are passionate about keeping Universities in good shape and can see the worrying way things are going.
They're overpaid anyway, but I'm not against them taking action IRS just a disgrace how they're treating the student it proves they don't care about the students. Just money grabbing
Why do you think they are overpaid? Academics, professional service staff or both?
 

Hammer

Winger
They're overpaid anyway, but I'm not against them taking action IRS just a disgrace how they're treating the student it proves they don't care about the students. Just money grabbing
Are they? For the level of knowledge/expertise they are paid less than equivalent industry roles.
There are two key reasons, pay and pensions.

There have been a number of changes to the University pension scheme in recent years, that mean people get less. There are further proposed changes because there is the fear of a funding deficit in the USS pension fund. USS have said they need more money coming in, Universities have said existing staff must foot 100% of that bill.
That's not really true, UUK want to split the cost between employers and employees (the contribution increase so far has been higher for employers than employees). UCU's position is that employees' contributions should remain where they were before the increase with employers shouldering the full amount.
 
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DaveH

Striker
Are they? For the level of knowledge/expertise they are paid less than equivalent industry roles.


That's not really true, UUK want to split the cost between employers and employees (the contribution increase so far has been higher for employers than employees). UCU's position is that employees' contributions should remain where they were before the increase with employers shouldering the full amount.
Initially it was 100% employee.
 

DaveH

Striker
The percentages were much higher before the revised valuation but it was never 100% employee.
I’m pretty sure the mail I got said “USS need X amount and we are not putting anything in”.

Either way it is asking employees to pay for a lot of the mistakes of the employers.
 

Hammer

Winger
I’m pretty sure the mail I got said “USS need X amount and we are not putting anything in”.

Either way it is asking employees to pay for a lot of the mistakes of the employers.
The 2017 valuation forecast an enormous deficit. The proposed employee contributions were something like 12% and the employers was over 25% I think. The Joint Expert Panel did a new valuation which gave a much smaller deficit hence reduced amounts on both sides.

I understand the UCU position of no detriment to members but the other side of that is every single research intensive university (and a lot of the post 92 unis) are already running reviews of their professional services. This means job losses and increasing the employer contribution means more cuts. A lot of these professional services staff are UCU and USS members.

I’m interested to see what JEP phase two concludes as it’s a tough situation either way.
 
Are they? For the level of knowledge/expertise they are paid less than equivalent industry roles.
What are the equivalent industry roles for academics?

There are some excellent academics, but there are also a lot that have a lot of theoretical knowledge but not so much in the way of practical experience.

Unfortunately they are often blind to that fact and believe they would be competent in that area if they were to leave academia.
 
What are the equivalent industry roles for academics?

There are some excellent academics, but there are also a lot that have a lot of theoretical knowledge but not so much in the way of practical experience.

Unfortunately they are often blind to that fact and believe they would be competent in that area if they were to leave academia.
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
 

Hammer

Winger
What are the equivalent industry roles for academics?

There are some excellent academics, but there are also a lot that have a lot of theoretical knowledge but not so much in the way of practical experience.

Unfortunately they are often blind to that fact and believe they would be competent in that area if they were to leave academia.
Is there much difference between doing life sciences research for a university and life sciences research for a pharma company? Lots of our academics have set up successful spin outs.

I suppose the equivalent roles don’t necessarily exist in every discipline though you’re right.
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
But academics research. Teaching is just an annoying requirement to allow you to research.
 
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DaveH

Striker
What are the equivalent industry roles for academics?

There are some excellent academics, but there are also a lot that have a lot of theoretical knowledge but not so much in the way of practical experience.

Unfortunately they are often blind to that fact and believe they would be competent in that area if they were to leave academia.
Research. Not all academics teach and for some, teaching seems like an annoyance in the way of their research.
 

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