Toivonen return


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really sums up our recruitment team the last few years. We end up signing players that their current club can't wait to see the back of, and who no-one else in their right mind would want.

The only one I can think of in recent times, who had a few clubs chasing him was Defoe.
Aye but we had Altidore to swap with and he was hugely wanted rid off
 
In fairness to the club, non of us now how the negotiations go, you are assuming we just forgot to put in a clause about sending him back.

Wouldnt be that shocked if we tried to put an option in but Rennes said no, full year or nothing.
Club asked Advocaat, do you really want him as we wont be able to return him.
Advocaat said yes i really want him.

The return option only looks poor because he is shit. If we'd both agreed that he could be returned/recalled had started the season on fire and scored a few goals and the Rennes decided to recall him, we'd all be up in arms saying the club is shit for not locking him down to full year.
You'll get nowhere on here talking sense man woman man!
 
We have been since around the time Ellis took sole charge, certainly since Bruce began dismantling the side containing Gyan, Bent and a few other important players. Plenty can see it mate. I guess a lot of people just don't feel comfortable knocking the club week after week, year on year, which is what it would amount to.
We've been a shambles since before that. We've been storing up trouble ever since Drumaville arrived IMO.

There is certainly an American lad who is at the club in a senior position who should be nowhere near that position at most he should be making the f***ing tea. I was wondering if we are thinking of the same person and I suspect we probably are.

Cronyism is well in play at Sunderland.
He really did spill your bird/shag your pint didn't he, Sheps?;)
 
I can see why Sam might want to end his loan to free up space for someone he wants but until I know who that is I am happy to keep him as an alternate CM/CF.
 
I suspect that in terms of investment Ellis has matched what he could realistically expect to get back for the club and has stopped there. Looks that way to me anyhow.
If we're covering annual losses of £10-20m then he can't have turned the taps off can he (genuine question)? It's more likely that he's just reached a point where he isn't willing to launch massive recruitment drives. In many respects that isn't what we need anyway. We need order and a plan. That will give far more to us than merely spending big money.
 
Arent International Loans always for a full season? Other than choose to loan the knacker dont see that the club have done anything wrong here. Down to Dick and/or Congers.
 
We are absolute ***** when it comes to negotiating deals like, just total incompetence. We're developing a bad reputation with other clubs
 
We are absolute ***** when it comes to negotiating deals like, just total incompetence. We're developing a bad reputation with other clubs

I doubt the other clubs are blameless, we're not the only ones who have problems.
 
There is certainly an American lad who is at the club in a senior position who should be nowhere near that position at most he should be making the f***ing tea. I was wondering if we are thinking of the same person and I suspect we probably are.

Cronyism is well in play at Sunderland.
Samson isn't a senior position mate
 
If we're covering annual losses of £10-20m then he can't have turned the taps off can he (genuine question)? It's more likely that he's just reached a point where he isn't willing to launch massive recruitment drives. In many respects that isn't what we need anyway. We need order and a plan. That will give far more to us than merely spending big money.

Since reaching the magic figure he's changed the way he "loans" us (or borrows) money on our behalf. For a while now it looks like any money he loans the club he'll want back, hence his reluctance to fund any more than necessary. Looking out of date now but this is a canny read.
 
Since reaching the magic figure he's changed the way he "loans" us (or borrows) money on our behalf. For a while now it looks like any money he loans the club he'll want back, hence his reluctance to fund any more than necessary. Looking out of date now but this is a canny read.
It's a good article. the most recent Swiss Ramble one shows that he capitalised £33m of loans in 2013 though. Given the reporting periods he's probably done it again since. He's certainly trying to reduce the clubs dependence on him but that's no bad thing long term.
 
It's a good article. the most recent Swiss Ramble one shows that he capitalised £33m of loans in 2013 though. Given the reporting periods he's probably done it again since. He's certainly trying to reduce the clubs dependence on him but that's no bad thing long term.

Do we have any investment in the hotel? I seem to recall Greedminds suggesting he'd borrowed money (against the club) around the time it was first mooted.

I used to go through the accounts at one time, haven't bothered for a while now mind.
 
He's been mostly appalling since he arrived. I couldn't quite grasp just how immobile he is for an International player playing at a reasonable level. First few mins he had the impact at Villa playing one ball and then getting on the ball a couple of times, he had a good 40 mins or so playing behind Defoe against Spurs when we hit the ball to his head, then Pochettino changed things around just before half time and he never saw the ball again and he came on and played a ball against Villa for the Defoe goal the other week.

The above apart the has been absolutely woeful. I think he maybe does have some talent on the ball, but he is that slow and immobile there is no possible way he could play over here. In midfield he gets himself back into position and is quite disciplined, but tbh it's next to pointless as he's so slow he's unable to get the ball or to even apply any pressure to it before it's already been played away from him. We've seen him try to close down at times and make tackles, even foul and the opposition have just took the piss out of him, he's generally got nowhere near. You may as well play a 45-50 year old former world class player in midfield as they'd be on a similar level in terms of immobility.

Several posters said on arrival just how chronically slow he was, but I can't remember seeing anything like it, not at this level anyway. The make up of the lad, size, playing style etc does seem to suit that of a target man, so maybe with having a touch of technical ability in slower leagues he's played behind the front man with reasonable effect before. The on;y suprise from his time here is that he wasn't binned off by Allardyce the moment he took over.

We are absolute ***** when it comes to negotiating deals like, just total incompetence. We're developing a bad reputation with other clubs

How so? Manager takes over and doesn't want shit player on a season long loan. Season long loans can't be sent back. We've probably asked the question to help us out and Rennes are likely to say no. Blame Advocaat for wanting the shit **** in the first place.
 
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When he first played I thought he was just seriously lacking match fitness. But no, turns out that's actually his fitness level...

If he turns out to have some blood disorder or health problem (like Gerry Harrison) I wouldn't be at all surprised. Don't think I've ever seen a more unfit professional footballer. Andy Reid was fatter, granted, but considerably fitter nevertheless.
 
He's been mostly appalling since he arrived. I couldn't quite grasp just how immobile he is for an International player playing at a reasonable level. First few mins he had the impact at Villa playing one ball and then getting on the ball a couple of times, he had a good 40 mins or so playing behind Defoe against Spurs when we hit the ball to his head, then Pochettino changed things around just before half time and he never saw the ball again and he came on and played a ball against Villa for the Defoe goal the other week.

The above apart the has been absolutely woeful. I think he maybe does have some talent on the ball, but he is that slow and immobile there is no possible way he could play over here. In midfield he gets himself back into position and is quite disciplined, but tbh it's next to pointless as he's so slow he's unable to get the ball or to even apply any pressure to it before it's already been played away from him. We've seen him try to close down at times and make tackles, even foul and the opposition have just took the piss out of him, he's generally got nowhere near. You may as well play a 45-50 year old former world class player in midfield as they'd be on a similar level in terms of immobility.

Several posters said on arrival just how chronically slow he was, but I can't remember seeing anything like it, not at this level anyway. The make up of the lad, size, playing style etc does seem to suit that of a target man, so maybe with having a touch of technical ability in slower leagues he's played behind the front man with reasonable effect before. The on;y suprise from his time here is that he wasn't binned off by Allardyce the moment he took over.



How so? Manager takes over and doesn't want shit player on a season long loan. Season long loans can't be sent back. We've probably asked the question to help us out and Rennes are likely to say no. Blame Advocaat for wanting the shit **** in the first place.

Great post! Early on v Villa he looked good to me. How wrong could I have been, he's awful

I would love to know the rationale for his signing!
 
At least we only agreed to the loan. Means at the end of the season he's gone, no problems with trying to get rid etc. Compared to other players (Fletcher/Graham) we've paid fortunes for on long contracts, which has not only had a negative effect cost wise but absolutely crippled us playing wise as we can't replace them, the Toivenen deal is small fry and just a minor annoyance in comparison.
 
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