JL1985
Striker
Spurs 19Chelsea have had 21 managers since 2000
Watford have had 28 managers since 2000
Palace are on their 29th manager since 2000
We aren’t even an outlier, we’re bang average.
Aston Villa 24
Mags 20
Last edited:
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Spurs 19Chelsea have had 21 managers since 2000
Watford have had 28 managers since 2000
Palace are on their 29th manager since 2000
We aren’t even an outlier, we’re bang average.
ExactlyThis is all reminiscent of when we gave Bruce the sack and all his mates in the media rallied to come to his defence and attack the club.
I don’t agree that KLD only sees it as a business project either. He wouldn’t be at Eppleton in the freezing cold watching the u21s when he could be living it up in Monaco if he did.
I wish I had.I stopped reading at
Speakman sees himself as a visionary
We can all watch this space ..the above is a well thought out and correct assessment..once you realise KLD will stick to the strict business orientated financially frugal model you realise any success if any will be years down the line as the club grows slowly ..so immediate concerns about performance league position are just noise that is being ignored ........ as long as we stay in this division and each summer there is hope of promotion (keep fans happy)we will go on for years like this!It makes complete business sense and thats what kld rates over anything else. If anyone disagrees with this assessment lets just wait a couple of years or so and reassess ..my guess we will be exactly where we are today!Huge opportunity for us, nothing at all to fear. Thanks to Mowbray and now we push on and improve again.
There is much to agree with in this analysis but one thing jars with me. Alex Neil was unemployed when he agreed to join Sunderland and he accepted the direction of travel for the club. He left for family reasons and a significant hike in his pay packet not because of the model he voluntarily signed up for.
Speakman sees himself as a visionary
Mowbray had developed young players throughout his career, had vast experience in the Championship and would keep them in the second tier at the very least. After promotion, that was all that really mattered and would allow Speakman and his recruitment team time to identify next generation, within budget contraints, to add to the squad.
Speakman thinks of himself as a visionary, a modern football man who has worked out the Matrix. He is obsessed with youth development.
Dreyfus may well be a very wealthy young man from a very rich family, but those with inside knowledge of how the club is run have stressed to Telegraph Sport that it is very much a business project for the Frenchman. He will not be pumping large sums of money in chasing a dream. There is nothing wrong with that.
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At 26, Kyril Louis-Dreyfus is the youngest owner in English football CREDIT: Focus Images/Ross Johnston
The recruitment department, led by Speakman, who at the age of 44 had worked his way up the football ladder after starting his career as an academy coach at Derby County and Birmingham City, could provide the players for the manager to work with.
The manager or head coach would get on with moulding them into a successful Championship team while also improving them as individual players.
The more experience they got, the better they and the team would become. That, at least, is how the board believed it should work. That is the model they have wedded themselves too. This is the blueprint and it will not be changed.
At this point, though, it is worth remembering that Mowbray had only been appointed because Neil, the manager who had finally got Sunderland out of League One after four years in the third tier, left for Stoke because he also questioned the recruitment strategy and business model.
He did not want to work with kids; he wanted experience and proven Championship players alongside them. They are not cheap and do not have as much potential for resale profit.
He, like Mowbray, began to believe that promotion, which is what Sunderland’s board say they want, will not be possible unless compromises were made in recruitment. He left because he did not feel they ever would be.
A 21st manager in 21 years
The end result is that Sunderland, a club which has been renowned for chewing up and spitting out managers, is looking for another one. It will be their 20th change in the dugout since 2002.
What comes next, will define everything. Two managers have ultimately disagreed with the model and questioned the vision. If two become three, things will start to unravel and it will be Speakman in the firing line.
“This was a difficult decision to make, but we remain loyal to our ambition and our strategy,” said Speakman, in a statement that many fans suspect had been sitting in a draft file for a while. “And felt that now was the right moment to take this step.”
The tone of Dreyfus’ comments was equally forthright: “As custodians of our great club, we believe in our long-term strategy that we hope will ensure sustainability and success for SAFC.
“Central to that approach is a relentless demand for a high-performance culture to be implemented throughout the club and the development of a strong playing identity that you, our loyal supporters, can all be proud of.”
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A three-game winless streak saw the end of Mobraw's time at the Stadium of Light CREDIT: Getty Images/Ian Horrocks
If promotion to the Premier League, a division the Wearsiders last graced six years ago, is the ultimate aim, it will be Speakman and Dreyfus, 26, the youngest owner in English football, who decides how they get there. It is their project and Speakman’s vision and model that will, hopefully, return the club to the top flight.
Supporters are still willing to trust the people in charge. There is goodwill after promotion from League One and last season’s near miss in the play-offs. The players who have arrived under Speakman have talent and obvious potential. Some of the football has been great to watch.
But that is ultimately meaningless if they do not have the right manager to lead them. Mowbray’s view was that too many were “not quite ready” to give Sunderland the results they needed to be in promotion contention.
Young managers making their mark
There is a view that Speakman already knows who he wants to replace Mowbray. Sources have said he wants a younger, more dynamic manager, with modern methods, language and style.
He will have looked at the job someone like Kieran McKenna has done with Ipswich Town and will convince himself there is someone like him out there who can do a better job than Mowbray. He may well be right. He could also be wrong.
Southampton sacked a popular manager in Nigel Adkins many years ago and replaced him with a young Argentinian called Mauricio Pochettino and things turned out pretty well.
Hull City appointed Marco Silva and almost pulled off a remarkable escape from relegation when they had looked dead and buried until he arrived. Both were largely unknown managers from abroad who thrived in English football.
But, would they have done so with a team as young as Sunderland’s? Could they have moulded young men from France, Ukraine, Portugal, Netherlands, Costa Rica and, of course the British Isles, into promotion contenders while knowing those players will be sold when the time is right to cash in?
Could they compete consistently with teams operating with far bigger wage budgets and larger transfer funds, those dropping out of the Premier League with all their extra quality and squad depth that brings?
Could they thrive without a proven striker in their side - Sunderland’s supposedly specialist centre forwards have not scored a league goal between them this season?
Because this is what Sunderland’s new manager will have to do if they are going to turn Speakman and Dreyfus’ vision into a reality.
Everyone in charge of football clubs has a plan, whether it is the right one depends entirely on results.
From the outside looking in, Mowbray was doing a good job within testing parameters. The people running Sunderland disagreed. But if they get the next appointment wrong, supporters may well start to disagree with the way they are doing things too.
"He (Alex Neil), like Mowbray, began to believe that promotion, which is what Sunderland’s board say they want, will not be possible unless compromises were made in recruitment. He left because he did not feel they ever would be".
Aye right. That's why he left. FFS. What a load of shit!
Well that's the Torygraph and the Guardian making the same point (how often does that happen).
A successful team is a mixture of youth and experience
Mowbray has been scapegoated for making that point, once too often.
This season with the two best players from last season missing, Batth and Amad not at the club. We are struggling, Patterson is most often the MoM
KLD does not want to admit his extreme model is bollocks. Or that Speakmans young and inexperienced poundland players are atm not up to the job.
I cannot imagine, with the rate at which we discard managers, any good experienced man is going to want to come in. Unless he gets a 5 year contact, so when he is sacked, like Mowbray, he gets a decent payoff
The next manager is likely to be a young nonentity with nothing to lose.
Well that's the Torygraph and the Guardian making the same point (how often does that happen).
A successful team is a mixture of youth and experience
Mowbray has been scapegoated for making that point, once too often.
This season with the two best players from last season missing, Batth and Amad not at the club. We are struggling, Patterson is most often the MoM
KLD does not want to admit his extreme model is bollocks. Or that Speakmans young and inexperienced poundland players are atm not up to the job.
I cannot imagine, with the rate at which we discard managers, any good experienced man is going to want to come in. Unless he gets a 5 year contact, so when he is sacked, like Mowbray, he gets a decent payoff
The next manager is likely to be a young nonentity with nothing to lose.
Wasn't unprompted. There was massive speculation which proved to be highly credible and that was coming out of the club ine way or another when he should have been able to concentrate on the matches. The club's management were very disrespectful.Uncle Tony letting his mouth go to all the journalists off the record I see.
Always been about self preservation since he started bringing up his future during the playoffs unprompted.
Which bit the sacking managers regular bit or the people mentioning it?It’s getting boring now Fletch.
The Batth bit is utter bollocks anarlHa'way, that's just untrue. A couple of MOTM performances this season, definitely not 'most often'.
They can appoint a cloned version of Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Mikel Arteta but they’ll still only have the same tools to work with.
Speakman sees himself as a visionary
Mowbray had developed young players throughout his career, had vast experience in the Championship and would keep them in the second tier at the very least. After promotion, that was all that really mattered and would allow Speakman and his recruitment team time to identify next generation, within budget contraints, to add to the squad.
Speakman thinks of himself as a visionary, a modern football man who has worked out the Matrix. He is obsessed with youth development.
Dreyfus may well be a very wealthy young man from a very rich family, but those with inside knowledge of how the club is run have stressed to Telegraph Sport that it is very much a business project for the Frenchman. He will not be pumping large sums of money in chasing a dream. There is nothing wrong with that.
Logon or register to see this image
At 26, Kyril Louis-Dreyfus is the youngest owner in English football CREDIT: Focus Images/Ross Johnston
The recruitment department, led by Speakman, who at the age of 44 had worked his way up the football ladder after starting his career as an academy coach at Derby County and Birmingham City, could provide the players for the manager to work with.
The manager or head coach would get on with moulding them into a successful Championship team while also improving them as individual players.
The more experience they got, the better they and the team would become. That, at least, is how the board believed it should work. That is the model they have wedded themselves too. This is the blueprint and it will not be changed.
At this point, though, it is worth remembering that Mowbray had only been appointed because Neil, the manager who had finally got Sunderland out of League One after four years in the third tier, left for Stoke because he also questioned the recruitment strategy and business model.
He did not want to work with kids; he wanted experience and proven Championship players alongside them. They are not cheap and do not have as much potential for resale profit.
He, like Mowbray, began to believe that promotion, which is what Sunderland’s board say they want, will not be possible unless compromises were made in recruitment. He left because he did not feel they ever would be.
A 21st manager in 21 years
The end result is that Sunderland, a club which has been renowned for chewing up and spitting out managers, is looking for another one. It will be their 20th change in the dugout since 2002.
What comes next, will define everything. Two managers have ultimately disagreed with the model and questioned the vision. If two become three, things will start to unravel and it will be Speakman in the firing line.
“This was a difficult decision to make, but we remain loyal to our ambition and our strategy,” said Speakman, in a statement that many fans suspect had been sitting in a draft file for a while. “And felt that now was the right moment to take this step.”
The tone of Dreyfus’ comments was equally forthright: “As custodians of our great club, we believe in our long-term strategy that we hope will ensure sustainability and success for SAFC.
“Central to that approach is a relentless demand for a high-performance culture to be implemented throughout the club and the development of a strong playing identity that you, our loyal supporters, can all be proud of.”
Logon or register to see this image
A three-game winless streak saw the end of Mobraw's time at the Stadium of Light CREDIT: Getty Images/Ian Horrocks
If promotion to the Premier League, a division the Wearsiders last graced six years ago, is the ultimate aim, it will be Speakman and Dreyfus, 26, the youngest owner in English football, who decides how they get there. It is their project and Speakman’s vision and model that will, hopefully, return the club to the top flight.
Supporters are still willing to trust the people in charge. There is goodwill after promotion from League One and last season’s near miss in the play-offs. The players who have arrived under Speakman have talent and obvious potential. Some of the football has been great to watch.
But that is ultimately meaningless if they do not have the right manager to lead them. Mowbray’s view was that too many were “not quite ready” to give Sunderland the results they needed to be in promotion contention.
Young managers making their mark
There is a view that Speakman already knows who he wants to replace Mowbray. Sources have said he wants a younger, more dynamic manager, with modern methods, language and style.
He will have looked at the job someone like Kieran McKenna has done with Ipswich Town and will convince himself there is someone like him out there who can do a better job than Mowbray. He may well be right. He could also be wrong.
Southampton sacked a popular manager in Nigel Adkins many years ago and replaced him with a young Argentinian called Mauricio Pochettino and things turned out pretty well.
Hull City appointed Marco Silva and almost pulled off a remarkable escape from relegation when they had looked dead and buried until he arrived. Both were largely unknown managers from abroad who thrived in English football.
But, would they have done so with a team as young as Sunderland’s? Could they have moulded young men from France, Ukraine, Portugal, Netherlands, Costa Rica and, of course the British Isles, into promotion contenders while knowing those players will be sold when the time is right to cash in?
Could they compete consistently with teams operating with far bigger wage budgets and larger transfer funds, those dropping out of the Premier League with all their extra quality and squad depth that brings?
Could they thrive without a proven striker in their side - Sunderland’s supposedly specialist centre forwards have not scored a league goal between them this season?
Because this is what Sunderland’s new manager will have to do if they are going to turn Speakman and Dreyfus’ vision into a reality.
Everyone in charge of football clubs has a plan, whether it is the right one depends entirely on results.
From the outside looking in, Mowbray was doing a good job within testing parameters. The people running Sunderland disagreed. But if they get the next appointment wrong, supporters may well start to disagree with the way they are doing things too.
To be honest whenever a manager is sacked it is normally reported by the media as too early and that the manager has been badly treated. The club wants promotion and to do that we need a top class, tactically astute coach. Is Mowbray that coach? His record of 21 years as a coach/manager would suggest not. He's decent, solid but not dynamic and massively tactically astute. As for KLD's model being bollocks it has led to us getting promoted and then into the play offs. Yes, Mowbray has been part of that as was Alex Neil but so far it has been a great success.Well that's the Torygraph and the Guardian making the same point (how often does that happen).
A successful team is a mixture of youth and experience
Mowbray has been scapegoated for making that point, once too often.
This season with the two best players from last season missing, Batth and Amad not at the club. We are struggling, Patterson is most often the MoM
KLD does not want to admit his extreme model is bollocks. Or that Speakmans young and inexperienced poundland players are atm not up to the job.
I cannot imagine, with the rate at which we discard managers, any good experienced man is going to want to come in. Unless he gets a 5 year contact, so when he is sacked, like Mowbray, he gets a decent payoff
The next manager is likely to be a young nonentity with nothing to lose.
Too negative….we have brought in a lot of talented young players. We need three things nowWe can all watch this space ..the above is a well thought out and correct assessment..once you realise KLD will stick to the strict business orientated financially frugal model you realise any success if any will be years down the line as the club grows slowly ..so immediate concerns about performance league position are just noise that is being ignored ........ as long as we stay in this division and each summer there is hope of promotion (keep fans happy)we will go on for years like this!It makes complete business sense and thats what kld rates over anything else. If anyone disagrees with this assessment let’s just wait a couple of years or so and reassess ..my guess we will be exactly where we are today!
Using Neil as an example just shows how out of touch they are really."He (Alex Neil), like Mowbray, began to believe that promotion, which is what Sunderland’s board say they want, will not be possible unless compromises were made in recruitment. He left because he did not feel they ever would be".
Aye right. That's why he left. FFS. What a load of shit!