Thousands of rape cases not reported or investigated properly



It seems that any case where there is a limited likelihood of a conviction doesn't seem to be recorded nowadays.

Couple of examples, I had my car damaged by a hit and run driver recently but, as there were no witnesses or CCTV, the police refused to record it.
Second example was a work colleague was on a night out with his girlfriend. While they were kissing in a bar, his girlfriend's bag was stolen, but the police would only record it as a loss.

Unfortunately, with rape, it's largely one person's word against another's and very difficult to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The only time I've ever done jury service was a case of sexual assault by a father on is daughter. While the father came across as a nasty piece of work, and it was tempting to find him guilty just for that, there was no evidence beyond he said, she said, so we had no option but to return a not guilty verdict.

That "girl" would be in her mid to late 30s by now, but I do often think about her and worry that our decision may have sent her back to an abusive situation.
 
It seems that any case where there is a limited likelihood of a conviction doesn't seem to be recorded nowadays.

Couple of examples, I had my car damaged by a hit and run driver recently but, as there were no witnesses or CCTV, the police refused to record it.
Second example was a work colleague was on a night out with his girlfriend. While they were kissing in a bar, his girlfriend's bag was stolen, but the police would only record it as a loss.

Unfortunately, with rape, it's largely one person's word against another's and very difficult to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The only time I've ever done jury service was a case of sexual assault by a father on is daughter. While the father came across as a nasty piece of work, and it was tempting to find him guilty just for that, there was no evidence beyond he said, she said, so we had no option but to return a not guilty verdict.

That "girl" would be in her mid to late 30s by now, but I do often think about her and worry that our decision may have sent her back to an abusive situation.
There’s legs in having a “not proven” verdict like they have in Scotland, but the complexities and potential fallouts probably make it impossible to implement.
 
There’s legs in having a “not proven” verdict like they have in Scotland, but the complexities and potential fallouts probably make it impossible to implement.
I remember there being a TV programme back in the 80s called "Murder not proven" which examined Scottish cases where that verdict had been determined, so I'm aware of it's existence, but I was a bairn when it was broadcast, so I don't really know any more than the fact that it exists. What it means in terms of sentencing, I've no idea. In fact I'm off to google it now.
 
I remember there being a TV programme back in the 80s called "Murder not proven" which examined Scottish cases where that verdict had been determined, so I'm aware of it's existence, but I was a bairn when it was broadcast, so I don't really know any more than the fact that it exists. What it means in terms of sentencing, I've no idea. In fact I'm off to google it now.
It’s a form of acquittal but still leaving doubt I suppose. I’ll leave you to google it tho and make your own judgement.
 
Hopefully they can catch Ghislaine Maxwell and she can be questioned about the ones her and her friends have been accused of.
 
Part of me thinks they shouldn't be publishing stuff like this. It'll make certain types of blokes just think they'll be able to get away with it.

There's a wider point I think. The system is driving the wrong behaviours. Firstly, it's flawed to blame the crime rate on the police. They obviously have a role in reducing crime but not the only role. But it feels like the only thing we measure the police on is how many crimes are being committed, not whether they are doing a good job investigating those crimes. Maybe they work in Liverpool, and scousers haven't stopped being a bunch of scratters just yet.

So they should be looking at a more balanced set of measurements for the police in the first place. But also, if we acknowledge there are some offences that are hard to prosecute because of their specific characteristics - no one says "I saw you having a drink with that bloke, maybe you wanted him to punch you in the face and take your wallet." We shouldn't penalise the victim and the police by only measuring the outcome of those investigations when there's more to it than that. If more sexual assaults are being committed, ask why? If the number of sexual assaults is the same but more are being reported because victims have more confidence that something will be done, that's progress at least. And rather than just play the league tables game with police and prosecutors, we should learn from cases that have failed to identify a suspect or failed to get a conviction, as part of improving the system.
 
There's a wider point I think. The system is driving the wrong behaviours. Firstly, it's flawed to blame the crime rate on the police. They obviously have a role in reducing crime but not the only role. But it feels like the only thing we measure the police on is how many crimes are being committed, not whether they are doing a good job investigating those crimes. Maybe they work in Liverpool, and scousers haven't stopped being a bunch of scratters just yet.

So they should be looking at a more balanced set of measurements for the police in the first place. But also, if we acknowledge there are some offences that are hard to prosecute because of their specific characteristics - no one says "I saw you having a drink with that bloke, maybe you wanted him to punch you in the face and take your wallet." We shouldn't penalise the victim and the police by only measuring the outcome of those investigations when there's more to it than that. If more sexual assaults are being committed, ask why? If the number of sexual assaults is the same but more are being reported because victims have more confidence that something will be done, that's progress at least. And rather than just play the league tables game with police and prosecutors, we should learn from cases that have failed to identify a suspect or failed to get a conviction, as part of improving the system.
You have spoken far too much sense so it will never happen.

They should get good old Vera the Victims Commissioner and man hater Baird to have a good hard look at it
 
Not recording crimes is basically manipulation of the facts to suit political agendas or personal gain of those in charge.

What's that saying about stats and damned lies?
I don’t know where this comes from as Northumbria uses Ethical crime recording and virtually everything gets crimes. It’s one of the main gripes of the officers on the ground as you can imagine , this takes a lot of time which can be used more productively ( Not eating doughnuts)
Rapes are recorded as soon as they are reported by the control room and can only be no crimed under strict circumstances.
This is an example of how reports are crimes.

AN INCIDENT WILL BE RECORDED AS A CRIME (NOTIFIABLE OFFENCE) FOR 'VICTIM RELATED' OFFENCES IF, ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY: ... A BELIEF BY THE VICTIM (OR A PERSON REASONABLY ASSUMED TO BE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE VICTIM, THAT A CRIME HAS OCCURRED IS USUALLY SUFFICIENT TO JUSTIFY ITS RECORDING.
 
AN INCIDENT WILL BE RECORDED AS A CRIME (NOTIFIABLE OFFENCE) FOR 'VICTIM RELATED' OFFENCES IF, ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITY: ... A BELIEF BY THE VICTIM (OR A PERSON REASONABLY ASSUMED TO BE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE VICTIM, THAT A CRIME HAS OCCURRED IS USUALLY SUFFICIENT TO JUSTIFY ITS RECORDING.

USUALLY SUFFICIENT !!!! That's sufficiently woolly and allows for a bit wiggle room.
 
USUALLY SUFFICIENT !!!! That's sufficiently woolly and allows for a bit wiggle room.
That’s not from Northumbria Police it’s just the closest thing I could find for ethical crime recording. NP are very stringent on recording crime after they were criticized on a HMIC visit a number of years ago.
 

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