This sums it up for me


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No because the first -PL penalties were mooted from around the start of the year but haven't been clarified yet............They were only due to wage bill restrictions as well..........

QPR had the fine under Championship riles which are different to the PL ones ...they only relate to clubs making losses and have nothing to do with wage bills........and they are in place and clarified...........

Yes the monster fines probably going to be reduced but its got nothing to do with the PL ones..........


No because Palace have a current wage bill that's well under the FFP level where restrictions kick in.............They have a lot more room to add to it than we do.............

Their current wage bill is around £45 million which is around 10% less than ours was when Short bought the club..........

Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't aware that there was an arbitrarily set FFP 'starting point' level for the wage bill calculations. As a matter of interest, can you tell us what they are and from when they apply ?
 
No the framework is there and do you want to take the risk of points deductions............they just haven't put the meat on the bones yet but that not to say at some point they might not........

Plus anyway like most PL clubs we have loads of debt but we unlike mist have sod all that's saleable...........
We still have the stadium.
 
Right I get this now with regards to paying players off. Could we not be creative in say our sponsorship of say the ground with one of shorts other companies...Man City did.
If the club were serious of kicking on then they would imo
Short really has only one other company and it operates by raising money on the markets to purchase distressed debt and then make a profit out of it...........

a) I doubt the markets he raised money on would be enamoured about this....
b) The company itself wouldn't get any benefit out of it.....doubt we as supporters would be bothered by that anyway
c) He wouldn't use his own cash as hes been trying to close the hole its been going down and he wont open a new one.......

Its sad as well that even getting a stadium sponsor though it may bring something in we are light years behind the mega deals the top PL clubs can command.....
 
Short really has only one other company and it operates by raising money on the markets to purchase distressed debt and then make a profit out of it...........

a) I doubt the markets he raised money on would be enamoured about this....
b) The company itself wouldn't get any benefit out of it.....doubt we as supporters would be bothered by that anyway
c) He wouldn't use his own cash as hes been trying to close the hole its been going down and he wont open a new one.......

Its sad as well that even getting a stadium sponsor though it may bring something in we are light years behind the mega deals the top PL clubs can command.....
As I say m8 if he was serious about kicking in then he would
 
Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't aware that there was an arbitrarily set FFP 'starting point' level for the wage bill calculations. As a matter of interest, can you tell us what they are and from when they apply ?
The start point was a wage bill which it was more than £52 million over the initial three year period could increase by no more than £4 million a year plus any extra income from commercial/sponsorship activities.Alas the TV money isn't included and we cant get 10 year deals worth hundreds of million that the big boys can...........

The first sanctions for breaches were pencilled in for the start of this year or so but although theres a supposed list of sanctions theres no actual fine detail as regards the PL been written down yet..........From that proposed start date you can assume the base wage bill would be the one in the accounts for last year.

With the advent of the new TV deal next year things may well change re FFP but you can see why clubs aren't ignoring it at the moment............
 
Short and SAFC was one of, if not the, chief instigators of the FFP rules. He can't well be seen canvassing for clubs spending within their means and stop the vicious circle of overspending and then go and find loopholes in the very proposals he's put forward.

It would seem to be an exercise in self-righteously cutting off your nose to spite your face, to run the risk of relegation from the Premier League, just so that you can steadfastly insist "But ! ... But ! ... But ! ... These are the FFP Rules !", when seemingly no one else is playing by the rules.
 
As I say m8 if he was serious about kicking in then he would
The company operates with other folks money man.............

Folk investing money to make coin from the sale of distressed debt wont want it used to sponsor a football clubs stadium.........
 
He could form a new company or get a m8s company to do it. These rich people always have ways and means. I honestly think that dick must of been lied to to get him to come back. What will happen next year when we will still need at least 6 players a new manager and best part of new backroom staff?
 
Blow the budget, buy the players finish 10pts above 17th. - doubt any sanction will be more than 10pts......easy
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You don't think Congerton will be involved with the fitness of players? Personally I reckon he will be like
I got the impression that the makeup of preseason training was still very much the provision of the coach, sheps. Personally I think that player physical condition, health and wellbeing should be wholly owned by the club and should take first priority during the early parts of the summer. I'd love to see us innovate in that area and put in resource to try to develop a competitive advantage. It's another area where the club have been spending over the past decade where we ended up throwing money away on mediocre players.
 
Both of them are over the limit but its only this season now clubs are having to start to think about this and Eerton haven't signed anyone yet have they?

Granted West ham have but they have lost Downing who was on shitloads from their wage bill...........


Man Citys problems have stemmed from the Uefa Rules which they are subject to having qualified for one of their competitions..............

PL FFP does state the sanctions if they do get set down will include points deductions.........Uefa have no such power..............
West Ham have signed Payet, Ogbaonna and Obiang for about £20m. They must be on a canny wage? Everton brought in Deulofeu and Cleverley.

Is there a possibility that Short is over reacting a bit too much to FFP?
 
It would seem to be an exercise in self-righteously cutting off your nose to spite your face, to run the risk of relegation from the Premier League, just so that you can steadfastly insist "But ! ... But ! ... But ! ... These are the FFP Rules !", when seemingly no one else is playing by the rules.
Who isn't abiding by FFP? People keep saying this as if we are the only ones.
 
It would seem to be an exercise in self-righteously cutting off your nose to spite your face, to run the risk of relegation from the Premier League, just so that you can steadfastly insist "But ! ... But ! ... But ! ... These are the FFP Rules !", when seemingly no one else is playing by the rules.

He wouldn't be the first stubborn billionaire but I would expect him to be pragmatic and look at the overall consequences of slipping out the league.

You have to also remember that other clubs are in a much better position with regards to FFP than we are and that they aren;t necessarily ignoring the rules, just have more flexibility to operate within them. Southampton, Swansea and Stoke were all more recently promoted than us with relatively low wage bills. The few year's of yo-yoing between the two top leagues left us with a lot of average players on big wages. Those teams had years of slowly building in the lower leagues then made the most of their promotion by spending wisely. That's meant that they've continued to get 'bang for their buck' when they've spent and have been able to keep well within the limits of FFP. Not only that but Southampton and Swansea have also benefited from selling academy products for big fees or making big profits on excellent recruitment.
 
He could form a new company or get a m8s company to do it. These rich people always have ways and means. I honestly think that dick must of been lied to to get him to come back. What will happen next year when we will still need at least 6 players a new manager and best part of new backroom staff?
So we'll be back to square one and made no progress! This is what I don't understand. Would we be better to bit the bullet and get the players in we need now and over the season start shifting out the deadwood. So come next summer we'd be in a healthier position.
 
Who isn't abiding by FFP? People keep saying this as if we are the only ones.
Again, THERE ARE NO PENALTIES AGREED OR IN PLACE FOR FFP. The clubs have not agreed any as of yet and penalties can't be done retrospectively.
 
West Ham have signed Payet, Ogbaonna and Obiang for about £20m. They must be on a canny wage? Everton brought in Deulofeu and Cleverley.

Is there a possibility that Short is over reacting a bit too much to FFP?
west ham also lost Downing from the age bill who will have been on a lot more than any of them.........add that to the £80k a week you can increase it by .........the actual spend doesn't matter as the penalties for losses only come into force after a three year rolling period and next year they will have increased revenue anyway thanks to the new stadium..........

That's only two players for Everton and again you can increase it by around £80k a week before it breaks any regulations.......Havent they also let Distin go as well who must be about 56 by now.............

He could form a new company or get a m8s company to do it. These rich people always have ways and means. I honestly think that dick must of been lied to to get him to come back. What will happen next year when we will still need at least 6 players a new manager and best part of new backroom staff?
Which bit of hes been trying to stop throwing his own money down a black hole have you missed mate...........he isn't just going to form a new company to pay to stick its name on the stadium and pour his money away down a new hole..............

New backroom staff cost sod all compared to the manger..........the last lot were on relative buttons and anyway next year the TV cash goes up by another £30 million or so........

Again, THERE ARE NO PENALTIES AGREED OR IN PLACE FOR FFP. The clubs have not agreed any as of yet and penalties can't be done retrospectively.
But you don't know that they wont be put in place and applied for this trading year which wont be reported until 2017 so they wont be applied retrospectively..............
 
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west ham also lost Downing from the age bill who will have been on a lot more than any of them.........add that to the £80k a week you can increase it by .........the actual spend doesn't matter as the penalties for losses only come into force after a three year rolling period and next year they will have increased revenue anyway thanks to the new stadium..........

That's only two players for Everton and again you can increase it by around £80k a week before it breaks any regulations.......Havent they also let Distin go as well who must be about 56 by now.............


Which bit of hes been trying to stop throwing his own money down a black hole have you missed mate...........he isn't just going to form a new company to pay to stick its name on the stadium and pour his money away down a new hole..............

New backroom staff cost sod all compared to the manger..........the last lot were on relative buttons and anyway next year the TV cash goes up by another £30 million or so........


But you don't know that they wont be put in place and applied for this trading year which wont be reported until 2017 so they wont be applied retrospectively..............
No. It would be already in place. They had the chance at a previous meeting and decided not to.
 
No. It would be already in place. They had the chance at a previous meeting and decided not to.
You cannt say for certain that they wont be for this season ...................

I think the TV money next year will move the goalposts but you cant say for certain what you have.........

Theres a lot more than us looking at FFP and theres a perfectly good reason why.......
 
I was still feeling like this until recently. It's pretty damning though that the last signing made was a loan, and the two rumoured now are loans.

It's a safe bet that there are no permanent signings being made before the window shuts.

The club's predicament is a massive worry, and if you can't see that you're simply in denial.

I'm normally clapping along happily, but the whole situation has a pretty dire outlook to me.


It aint great, but we have an experienced manager, 2/3 weeks of the window left. The club has been in a lot more dire situations in the past and is still here. I know i will get called a happy clapper, but i would much rather be in our situation than Leeds, Portmouth, Bradford, Rangers etc have been in recent years
 
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