This 'club being tight' nonsense.


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A lot of fans are sick after years of turgid football and the reaction to getting spanked by Leicester is predictable if nothing else. We all want to be better and to have better players but the accusations made by so many people that the club, and Short, are being tight are miles wide of the mark. The facts and figures show that. Lots of other clubs are in a much better situation that we are.

From the latest accounts available I've pulled a few stats out for comparison with clubs in and around us.

Let's start and benchmark with Sunderland.
Turnover - £104.4m
Wages - £69.5m
Wages to turnover - 67%
Loss in last accounting period - £17.1m
Net debt - £92.9m

This summer we have sold Wickham for ~£9m and purchased Lens, Kaboul, Coates, Matthews & Vergini. M'Vila has joined on loan and we have Alvarez hanging over us as well. Should Alvarez go through that's a net of ~£16m so far.

Now West Ham.
Turnover - £114.9m. £10.5m more than SAFC.
Wages - £63.9m. £5.6m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 56%. 11% less than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £10.3m. £27.4m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £73.5m. £19.4m less than SAFC.

Next summer they also move into the Olympic Stadium for an annual rent of a Curly Wurly and a box of TicTacs.

West Brom
Turnover - £86.8m. £17.6m less than SAFC.
Wages - £65.5m. £4m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 75%. 8% more than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £10.8m. £27.9m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £4.2m. £88.7m less than SAFC.

Quite an interesting one here as they have a smaller turnover but still manage to turn a profit and their net debt is a whopping £88.7 less than ours. They have invested pretty heavily this summer so far but that is likely to be offset when/if Berahino leaves.

Swansea
Turnover - £98.7m. £5.7m less than SAFC
Wages - £63.2m. £6.3m less than SAFC
Wages to turnover - 64%. 3% less than SAFC
Profit in last accounting period - £1.7m. £18.8m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - Is it actually PLUS £0.5m. £93.4m better off than SAFC.

Turnover, wages and WtT ratio are all very similar to SAFC but they have (at the end of the accounting period) no debt and turned a profit. Added to this they'll have the Bony transfer fee sloshing around.

Stoke
Turnover - £98.3m. £6.1m less than SAFC.
Wages - £60.6m. £8.9m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 62%. 5% less than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £3.8m. £20.9m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £37.8m. £55.1m less than SAFC.

Again, some similar stats for turnover, wages and WtT ratio but they turned a profit and net debt is a lot lower than ours. They've also sold Begovic and N'Zonzi this summer already so that can account for a lot of their investment.

Southampton
Turnover - £106.1m. £1.7m more than SAFC.
Wages - £63.0m. £6.5m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 59%. 8% less than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £33.4m. £50.5m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £25.1m. £67.8m less than SAFC.

Having sold a lot of players for huge money Southampton turned a big profit and their net debt is a lot, lot less than ours. They've sold Clyne and Schneiderlin in this window as well. Clearly far better placed to invest than we are.

Newcastle
Turnover - £129.7m. £25.3m more than SAFC.
Wages - £78.3m. £8.8m more than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 60%. 7% less than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £18.7m. £35.8m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £94.9m. £2m more than SAFC.

Newcastle are a curious one. They have a pretty high turnover compared to competitors but have a lower WtT ratio and turned a pretty big profit last time. Their accounts show £34.1m in cash as well but net debt is slightly higher than ours. From the outside it looks like Ashley is pushing the boat out.

Crystal Palace
Turnover - £90.4m. £14m less than SAFC.
Wages - £45.8m. £23.7m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 51%. 16% less than SAFC.
Profit in last accounting period - £17.9m. £35m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - It is actually PLUS £16.5m. £109.4m better off than SAFC.

Loads of cash reverses, in the red, loads of room on the wage bill. Miles better off to invest than SAFC.

Aston Villa
Turnover - £116.9m. £12.5m more than SAFC.
Wages - £69.3m. £0.2m less than SAFC.
Wages to turnover - 59%. 8% less than the SAFC.
Loss in last accounting period - £3.9m. £13.2m swing from SAFC.
Net debt - £102.0m. £9.1m more than SAFC.

Villa's finances are pretty similar to ours. Massive net debt but they have sold Benteke and Delph this summer which has covered nearly all of their spending.

So, as you can see if you're still reading, we are in a crap position compared to pretty much all of those sides we should be competing with. Years of signing dross and not being to sell many players on has left us a bit stuck now. Hopefully we can pull something out of the bag but it's certainly not a case of us being tight. Our circumstances are just not great. I didn't realise our comparisons were quite so unfavourable to be honest.


Don't come on here posting facts marra. The "short is a cancer that needs cutting out our club" knob heads will hate that.
 
If we have limited funds it's all the more baffling that we waste what we have.

Im absolutely amazed that someone as intelligent as Short would oversee such an absolute shower of shit, the amount of chopping and changing with gaffers for a start, compensation for the ones we fuck off, all of their staff.

The biggest frustration is that we do not appear to learn, we are in many ways a total shambles, make no mistake we are due a good kicking if we don't wise up very soon.

Dick is the fulcrum to positive change, miss out now and we will drop like a brick imo.
 
And changing manager all of the time as they invariably want their own players. We could go on for days pointing out where we have and why have wasted money.
Wanting their own players is fine if the players have a decent market value and can be sold at profit or break even when the next manager turns up, if you buy a load of shite then you have to sell it at a loss which is why we are constantly playing catch up.
 
Can't see them breaking even any time soon.



The Foundation is a completely different entity, isn't it?

If those figures have been pulled from the main group operating entity then I believe all operating activities (inc the foundation and the entertainment subs) will be included
 
We're stuck now because we kept on signing dross upon dross and still are. There's little to excuse at what's gone on here. What's the point in crowing that we have been the premiership for x number of seasons when the truth is there's been little or no entertainment in that time. Going home after yet another home defeat is no fun. The kids have no heroes to hang their hats on as I did as a kid.

Was an interesting point the other week when someone said anyone who`d been attending for just 8 years would only ever have seen us as a top flight side, heres how many wins weve managed at home in that period....

7 (4 home)
10 (5 home)
9 (5 home)
11 (7 home)
12 (7 home) finished 10 the nars
11 (9 home)
9 (6 home)
11 (9 home)

305 top flight games, 80 wins.

We`ve actually managed to win less in the last 3 seasons that Keanos first season!

Progress is nil.

anone lucky enough to see all these 8 years of home games ie 152 games, would have seen 52 wins ie once every 3 turnouts.

Last 3 years 57 home games, 14 wins, less than 1 every 4 home games.

Thouroughly depressing, Short must be as pissed off as the rest of us.

Remarkable how a side can win just a quarter of their games yet keep their head above water isn't it!
 
Was an interesting point the other week when someone said anyone who`d been attending for just 8 years would only ever have seen us as a top flight side, heres how many wins weve managed at home in that period....

7 (4 home)
10 (5 home)
9 (5 home)
11 (7 home)
12 (7 home) finished 10 the nars
11 (9 home)
9 (6 home)
11 (9 home)

305 top flight games, 80 wins.

We`ve actually managed to win less in the last 3 seasons that Keanos first season!

Progress is nil.

anone lucky enough to see all these 8 years of home games ie 152 games, would have seen 52 wins ie once every 3 turnouts.

Last 3 years 57 home games, 14 wins, less than 1 every 4 home games.

Thouroughly depressing, Short must be as pissed off as the rest of us.

Remarkable how a side can win just a quarter of their games yet keep their head above water isn't it!



:lol: A feast of football, that's entertainment
 
Shocking reading that we pay our pathetic excuse for a first team more than Swansea, Stoke and Crystal Palace all of whom have much better players than us. Palace have been in the league two years for goodness sake and they look light years ahead.
 
Was an interesting point the other week when someone said anyone who`d been attending for just 8 years would only ever have seen us as a top flight side, heres how many wins weve managed at home in that period....

7 (4 home)
10 (5 home)
9 (5 home)
11 (7 home)
12 (7 home) finished 10 the nars
11 (9 home)
9 (6 home)
11 (9 home)

305 top flight games, 80 wins.

We`ve actually managed to win less in the last 3 seasons that Keanos first season!

Progress is nil.

anone lucky enough to see all these 8 years of home games ie 152 games, would have seen 52 wins ie once every 3 turnouts.

Last 3 years 57 home games, 14 wins, less than 1 every 4 home games.

Thouroughly depressing, Short must be as pissed off as the rest of us.

Remarkable how a side can win just a quarter of their games yet keep their head above water isn't it!


Completely irrelevant I know but heres the table 16 year back, a side built for very little, 7th placed finish, Won 16 games, home record was won 10 drew 6, lost just the 3. Ferk me what we`d give for that now, basically safe on your home form alone.
 
Can't see them breaking even any time soon.



The Foundation is a completely different entity, isn't it?
By breaking even I mean getting their own cash back as opposed to the clubs trading performance.....
 
Was an interesting point the other week when someone said anyone who`d been attending for just 8 years would only ever have seen us as a top flight side, heres how many wins weve managed at home in that period....

7 (4 home)
10 (5 home)
9 (5 home)
11 (7 home)
12 (7 home) finished 10 the nars
11 (9 home)
9 (6 home)
11 (9 home)

305 top flight games, 80 wins.

We`ve actually managed to win less in the last 3 seasons that Keanos first season!

Progress is nil.

anone lucky enough to see all these 8 years of home games ie 152 games, would have seen 52 wins ie once every 3 turnouts.

Last 3 years 57 home games, 14 wins, less than 1 every 4 home games.

Thouroughly depressing, Short must be as pissed off as the rest of us.

Remarkable how a side can win just a quarter of their games yet keep their head above water isn't it!


And then you wonder why we are most pundit's tip for relegation
 
Can't see them breaking even any time soon.



The Foundation is a completely different entity, isn't it?
Yes and that's not the reason anyway........you have illustrated that our wage bill is around the same as the clubs at our level so its not just us paying fortunes out .........

One average PL wage these days would pay for over 80 others on normal wages of £25k...............
 
If we have limited funds it's all the more baffling that we waste what we have.

Im absolutely amazed that someone as intelligent as Short would oversee such an absolute shower of shit, the amount of chopping and changing with gaffers for a start, compensation for the ones we fuck off, all of their staff.

The biggest frustration is that we do not appear to learn, we are in many ways a total shambles, make no mistake we are due a good kicking if we don't wise up very soon.

Dick is the fulcrum to positive change, miss out now and we will drop like a brick imo.

Absolutely spot-on. I'm sure he's done it out of goodwill but he has wasted his own money and the mismanagement of the club has left us a less attractive proposition than our first season back in the PL. As you say, we simply can't afford to miss this chance with Advocaat as he's the best we can possibly wish for.
 
Who do you think has cost the club all this money? Short and his mismanagement get your head out of his arse man.

I think you will find it has cost him his own money not the club's. He has to subsidise the debt. He has made mistakes (giving de Fanti free reign etc). However if you want to continue thinking he is happily spunking away his own fortune, I don't think it's my head that needs pulling from anyone's arse. Maybe trying pulling yours from your own.

Think where we could've been if he hadn't come along, after quinn admitted Drumaville were all out of cash.
 
On a more positive note I genuinely think another good midfielder, striker and defender would see us OK. Providing M'Vila can stay fit. Getting them may be easier said than done but you have to have a bit of hope.
 
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