This 'club being tight' nonsense.


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Year on year you'd need losses in excess of £20M for the debt to be built up like this and you can't tell me that some of our expenditure hasn't been underwritten by Short so how are we spending our money. Are the debts this high cause we keep sacking managers and staff, is it also this high cause we've signed shit players for high fees? There's no way a chairman who is the leading advocate of FFP has allowed things to get this bad without knowing what's going on, so what the fuck has gone on. How do the accounts effect the potential to do business over the coming seasons? What plans and measures are in place to allow us to get on an even keel financially, and improve the club?
We have had losses way in excess of £20m for quite a few seasons since we got back in the premier league. Haven't got the figures in front of me but I think as an example it was £27m in 08/09 and £28m in 09/10.
Short has again from memory effectively written off around £70m and provided interest free loans for some more. We are only able to get in to the level of debt we have £90m+ because short underwrites it.
The costs of sacking managers will be included as will high fees and wages.

No idea what you mean by what's gone on? We have spent a lot of money on not very good players.
The impact nobody really knows, if FFP comes in properly we can't spend much more on wages. Even if it doesn't I can't see the club wanting to push costs even higher given that the new TV deal may finally get us into a profitable financial position which I guess is the plan.

As to how we improve I honestly don't know, we either have to spend a lot which seems unlikely or get much much better in the transfer market again not looking very likely.

Sorry for the long post and not having all the figures to hand.
 
Bristol City have just spent an initial £6m which could rise to £8m with add ons for Dwight Gayle. We'd call that sort of money a big investment, that price clearly shows it's what teams outside of the PL pay for players not good enough to make it in the PL. The prices are going to keep going up this transfer window as teams become more desperate and January will be ridiculous as the realisation of missing out on the new TV deal the PL brings hits home.

We need to spend money. And not small amounts on very average players. If we don't then our luck will run out and if it really goes tits up it could be a really bad season which splits the club apart.

I have faith that we will spend money as the club and particularly DA are not stupid and realise our plight. But it needs to be soon and it needs to be significant amounts on well scouted players.
 
Iirc in their final season at the club they overspent by close to £50m and had wages at 85%+ of turnover. Their business model was quite frankly shite. In fact, Quinny himself admitted had Short not arrived on the scene, the club was in the shit. Short inherited that mess and has been trying to put things right since.

Sadly since promotion, the club has lost money at an alarming rate.

Palace were on the verge of liquidation five years ago. They've now overtaken us in terms of league placing a and calibre of player they can attract. We were in the Premier League then. Getting Premier league income.

This doesn't fit in with your Short bailing us out since 2009 patter...
 
To be fair what can you to correct it when you need to keep signing to keep up and those already there have good long term contracts....

It's a difficult situation you can only offset by unearthing gems which gets harder or having saleable assets which we never really have..
Ultimately it's down to what happens on the football pitch and who he trusts to run that. Sadly he has got that wrong which is the main reason we are in the situation we are, hope he has got it right now.

Drumaville play a minor part in our current situation.
 
Bristol City have just spent an initial £6m which could rise to £8m with add ons for Dwight Gayle. We'd call that sort of money a big investment, that price clearly shows it's what teams outside of the PL pay for players not good enough to make it in the PL. The prices are going to keep going up this transfer window as teams become more desperate and January will be ridiculous as the realisation of missing out on the new TV deal the PL brings hits home.

We need to spend money. And not small amounts on very average players. If we don't then our luck will run out and if it really goes tits up it could be a really bad season which splits the club apart.

I have faith that we will spend money as the club and particularly DA are not stupid and realise our plight. But it needs to be soon and it needs to be significant amounts on well scouted players.

really?
 
Ultimately it's down to what happens on the football pitch and who he trusts to run that. Sadly he has got that wrong which is the main reason we are in the situation we are, hope he has got it right now.

Drumaville play a minor part in our current situation.
They started it though and you can't just cut a pl.wage bill like that..
 
We know there are none agreed now. We also know the framework and rules have been agreed as was a timeframe.
Best guess is it's been left up in the air due to the challenge/revision of uefa rules but it's all just a guess.


No it's not a guess. There are no sanctions.

Whatever they decide in the future will apply to the future, but there are no plans to make that decision, no timetable and given the tv money coming this year it's not very likely that they will agree anything and certainly not to those figures. As you suggest who knows what will happen.

What we know is that there are no FFP penalties this year. It will be impossible to apply them retrospectively and you can bookmark this post for that point if you like. I have explained why briefly many times before if you can't imagine why yourself.
 
I cant look that up at the moment but they were the ones who borrowed beyond their means and allowed Keane carte blanched to sign the world on decent contracts and good money...

Sure it was quinny who let Murphy get a five year one and when Short arrived he questioned both where Keane was and how many players we had which led to the falling out. .


Dunno where your getting that debt figure from but it's a load of crap and the cup brought very little extra...

Cheap tickets half full stadia and the revenue is split evenly ..

The increase this time list of sufficient magnitude to mean profitability. ..It doesn't mean I think they are well run though....

We posted pre tax losses in 2013 of 16.3m despite our turnover increasing by 30m, we post increased pre tax loss of 16.3m until July 31st 2014.

Gate receipts were up by 3.1m in our cup run, , hardly a sum to be sniffed at considering our low revenue compared to other clubs.
 
We are a heavyweight side in terms of financial figures. We've got a wage bill that suggest we've got a team full of superstars. And this is the problem, we behave like a heavyweight club, throwing the cash around to make sure we get players that are premier league quality. But often they turn out to be duds or just really really average.

We are the club that thinks we are getting solid players because they demand hefty wages, but we've seen with teams like Swansea, Southampton and Palace that you can assemble a squad of relative nobodys and still do well if you have the right qualities in the squad and a good philosophy. We've sacrificed all this for a bang average squad of overpaid players.

We really never learn. We probably thought we'd hit the jackpot getting Rodwell, probably reckoned it was a coup, but we failed to actually do our homework and work out how much he had regressed since joining Man City. And buying Fletcher for 12 million, he's not been that bad, but we were buying a striker who played for teams struggling against relegation, if you're going to spend 12 million then spend it on a player with not only the talent but some massive potential. We probably tried to do that with Wickham, but 8 million is way too much to spend on an 18 year old, especially when we can't wait around for that long while they develop.

We are a badly run club. These figures show that we've made huge mistakes because we are no better off than any of these sides. But Short should also be criticised for allowing the club to be this badly run and not hiring the right people to look after it.
 
No it's not a guess. There are no sanctions.

Whatever they decide in the future will apply to the future, but there are no plans to make that decision, no timetable and given the tv money coming this year it's not very likely that they will agree anything and certainly not to those figures. As you suggest who knows what will happen.

What we know is that there are no FFP penalties this year. It will be impossible to apply them retrospectively and you can bookmark this post for that point if you like. I have explained why briefly many times before if you can't imagine why yourself.
Why would they need to apply them retrospectively? They have already agreed to the framework and what the rules are. It's perfectly possible they could agree the punishment in December for example and apply that to the next set of accounts.
I agree with you to be honest I don't think there will be any this year.
 
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So, as you can see if you're still reading, we are in a crap position compared to pretty much all of those sides we should be competing with. Years of signing dross and not being to sell many players on has left us a bit stuck now. Hopefully we can pull something out of the bag but it's certainly not a case of us being tight. Our circumstances are just not great. I didn't realise our comparisons were quite so unfavourable to be honest.

This just demonstrates in financial terms how poorly we are being run. How many of those clubs have paid off coaches and their hangers on as many times as we have? I am intrigued by the reported comment from Advocaat that we are still paying transfer fees and wages for players who are not with us now. What the kind of mad fook up is that? We are run by an enthusiastic fan with no background in football, and a lawyer, with hardly any more experience in football. The shocking results (off the field) are the evidence of poor decision making.

Giacc, Graham, Rodwell, Fletcher..... Who else will be on big money who isn't performing as expected?
The Board?
 
The club's overall expenditure isn't the full picture imo.

We appear to penny pinch earlier on in the window, deluding ourselves that we have the boardroom personnel to outwit the agents. Then, as the window nears, we panic and get out pants pulled down.

Last season we chase Borini for a summer, fail after months to agree a sensible fee with Liverpool. Plan B is Alvarez, we agree to an utterly absurd deal that costs us £7m for a player we and no one else wants. Then we sign Defoe for a nominal fee, shifting Altidore too. Then, as we're all high-fiving each other, his agent gets us to give a 32 year old a 3.5 year, £70k a week contract. £60k a week to Conor Wickham cos his contract was running out.

The Fletcher deal went along similar lines. Piss around all summer then, when the season starts poorly, agree to pay £14m for him. £12m for Johnson.

So no, we're not tight. We're not competent enough to be tight.
 
We posted pre tax losses in 2013 of 16.3m despite our turnover increasing by 30m, we post increased pre tax loss of 16.3m until July 31st 2014.

Gate receipts were up by 3.1m in our cup run, , hardly a sum to be sniffed at considering our low revenue compared to other clubs.
And the turnover goes up by at least that amount in the accounts for the next season........

And the gate receipts increase might look okay but the filth take twice what we do at the gate every season......

Still don't know where you get this £4 million increase in debt from either.........
 
This just demonstrates in financial terms how poorly we are being run. How many of those clubs have paid off coaches and their hangers on as many times as we have? I am intrigued by the reported comment from Advocaat that we are still paying transfer fees and wages for players who are not with us now. What the kind of mad fook up is that? We are run by an enthusiastic fan with no background in football, and a lawyer, with hardly any more experience in football. The shocking results (off the field) are the evidence of poor decision making.

I think the vast majority of clubs will still be paying for players that they no longer have. It would surprise me for example if Man Utd had logged into their internet banking and sent a faster payment of £59.7m to Real Madrid on the day that they signed Angel Di Maria.

The club's overall expenditure isn't the full picture imo.

We appear to penny pinch earlier on in the window, deluding ourselves that we have the boardroom personnel to outwit the agents. Then, as the window nears, we panic and get out pants pulled down.

Last season we chase Borini for a summer, fail after months to agree a sensible fee with Liverpool. Plan B is Alvarez, we agree to an utterly absurd deal that costs us £7m for a player we and no one else wants. Then we sign Defoe for a nominal fee, shifting Altidore too. Then, as we're all high-fiving each other, his agent gets us to give a 32 year old a 3.5 year, £70k a week contract. £60k a week to Conor Wickham cos his contract was running out.

The Fletcher deal went along similar lines. Piss around all summer then, when the season starts poorly, agree to pay £14m for him. £12m for Johnson.

So no, we're not tight. We're not competent enough to be tight.

I think we have a poor reputation and have to pay over the odds to convince people to come. Certainly in the British market anyway.
 
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