This 'club being tight' nonsense.


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There's another at least £30million tv cash a year if we are still in the Pl by then

You are assuming that we are well managed though, we aren't.

How can debts rise by 4m to 20m in the last results when you are managing finances tightly with a clear target. Also we wont have the boost in revenue a Cup Final brought to the club either.
 
So was wages turnover in 09 77%? Which has floated between that and 82% for past few seasons and now 2nd largest according to Swiss ramble after the tv money at 67%.

Again, how can much of the blame be put on Drumaville?
I cant look that up at the moment but they were the ones who borrowed beyond their means and allowed Keane carte blanched to sign the world on decent contracts and good money...

Sure it was quinny who let Murphy get a five year one and when Short arrived he questioned both where Keane was and how many players we had which led to the falling out. .

You are assuming that we are well managed though, we aren't.

How can debts rise by 4m to 20m in the last results when you are managing finances tightly with a clear target. Also we wont have the boost in revenue a Cup Final brought to the club either.
Dunno where your getting that debt figure from but it's a load of crap and the cup brought very little extra...

Cheap tickets half full stadia and the revenue is split evenly ..

The increase this time list of sufficient magnitude to mean profitability. ..It doesn't mean I think they are well run though....
 
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When we all refer to FFP I pretty much assumed it was the Premier Leagues own FFP rules we were talking about not Europe's.

Of which Ellis was apparently the main driver.

It is the Premier League we are all referring to.

He was 'but but..' about UEFA FFP for some unknown reason.

There are no sanctions for breaking Premier League FFP. Yes, short would like there to be but there aren't. And it doesn't look like there will be any soon either.

They are talking about ffp on all levels though

No they are not.

Find me anything which shows they are talking about UEFA FFP... and in any case like I said. That does not apply to us because we are not in a UEFA competition and we're not likely to be any time soon.

Utter lunacy to believe Short is saying we can't break UEFA FFP to stave off relegation. He's not talking about that at all. He's talking about Premier League FFP of which he is a prime driver. Sadly other clubs are not interested.

That's why there have been no agreements on what to punish people with and why there aren't any.
 
It is the Premier League we are all referring to.

He was 'but but..' about UEFA FFP for some unknown reason.

There are no sanctions for breaking Premier League FFP. Yes, short would like there to be but there aren't. And it doesn't look like there will be any soon either.



No they are not.

Find me anything which shows they are talking about UEFA FFP... and in any case like I said. That does not apply to us because we are not in a UEFA competition and we're not likely to be any time soon.

Utter lunacy to believe Short is saying we can't break UEFA FFP to stave off relegation. He's not talking about that at all. He's talking about Premier League FFP of which he is a prime driver. Sadly other clubs are not interested.

That's why there have been no agreements on what to punish people with and why there aren't any.

When you say there aren't any agreements what document are you basing that on. Villa for example posted a table that I've seen before suggesting point deductions.
 
When you say there aren't any agreements what document are you basing that on. Villa for example posted a table that I've seen before suggesting point deductions.
Aye suggesting but there's nothing at all been clarified and the first ones for wage bill breaches were supposed to be from December last year..
 
Iirc, the 08/09 season was the bad one. We committed large amounts on wages (Healy on 20k a week for example) and Drumaville simply didn't have the money to back the spend.

You are right though, the club was in a mess before Drumaville came in.
Was 77% according to this.
They didn't have the funds after the crash and we all should be thankful to Short and as owners go he seems alright. However he's been here 6 years and nothing has changed and arguably it has got worse. After 6 years it is hard to apportion much blame to the spending Drumaville did for the current mess.
 
When you say there aren't any agreements what document are you basing that on. Villa for example posted a table that I've seen before suggesting point deductions.

That is exactly the problem on this board with FFP.

That document is the correct framework for FFP. But instead of everyone reading what they believe, they should read what it actually says.

It says that there will be a penalty for breaking this framework of FFP. The penalty is going to be a points deduction and they were supposed to all meet and agree what that would be 8 months ago for this coming season but they did not. So as it stands we have a framework and no punishment.

That's why nobody can tell you how many points you would be deducted if you broke wages by £1 million or £100 million or with a 1% rise or a 300% rise...because the two will not carry the same points deduction. It will be a sliding scale depending on how badly you break it.

Nobody on the planet can answer that question because it has no answer because they never agreed what to punish clubs with.

This is also the reason why it can't and won't be applied retrospectively if they ever get around to agreeing what to do...which does not look like anytime soon.

All this means FFP threads should be deleted from this board entirely as they are a red herring.
 
That is exactly the problem on this board with FFP.

That document is the correct framework for FFP. But instead of everyone reading what they believe, they should read what it actually says.

It says that there will be a penalty for breaking this framework of FFP. The penalty is going to be a points deduction and they were supposed to all meet and agree what that would be 8 months ago for this coming season but they did not. So as it stands we have a framework and no punishment.

That's why nobody can tell you how many points you would be deducted if you broke wages by £1 million or £100 million or with a 1% rise or a 300% rise...because the two will not carry the same points deduction. It will be a sliding scale depending on how badly you break it.

This is also the reason why it can't and won't be applied retrospectively if they ever get around to agreeing what to do...which does not look like anytime soon.

All this means FFP threads should be deleted from this board entirely as they are a red herring.
Does that mean we can delete all yours saying the same thing?
 
If that's the case then we must still be paying for f***ing George McCartney or something for the figures to be that f***ing high!
McCartney contract is over thus not in play on balance sheet. Rodwell signed a 5 year deal 10M plus his wages. They pay Man City 2M a year for 5 years installments. Some times the player is rubbish we play up the life of the wages to get rid of the player all together yet we still are paying installments to the club we bought from. It all depends on the contract and how we buy the player. We have been adding layers after layers on the balance sheet. Just because we sell the player we have cash to spend. It just goes to an installment which is due
 
McCartney contract is over thus not in play on balance sheet. Rodwell signed a 5 year deal 10M plus his wages. They pay Man City 2M a year for 5 years installments. Some times the player is rubbish we play up the life of the wages to get rid of the player all together yet we still are paying installments to the club we bought from. It all depends on the contract and how we buy the player. We have been adding layers after layers on the balance sheet. Just because we sell the player we have cash to spend. It just goes to an installment which is due
Still can't add up to over £90M in debts, and losses of £17M, surely not? What the fuck do we spend the money on?! I'm genuinely at a loss to understand how we can overspend/mis-spend this much money.
 
Still can't add up to over £90M in debts, and losses of £17M, surely not? What the fuck do we spend the money on?! I'm genuinely at a loss to understand how we can overspend/mis-spend this much money.
Why can't it? Losses lead to debt.
Have you missed the money we have spent on crap and the numerous posts about our wage bill being huge?
 
We know there are no ramifications (however much Short wants there to be) is the most important thing to know.
We know there are none agreed now. We also know the framework and rules have been agreed as was a timeframe.
Best guess is it's been left up in the air due to the challenge/revision of uefa rules but it's all just a guess.
 
I cant look that up at the moment but they were the ones who borrowed beyond their means and allowed Keane carte blanched to sign the world on decent contracts and good money...

Sure it was quinny who let Murphy get a five year one and when Short arrived he questioned both where Keane was and how many players we had which led to the falling out. .


Dunno where your getting that debt figure from but it's a load of crap and the cup brought very little extra...

Cheap tickets half full stadia and the revenue is split evenly ..

The increase this time list of sufficient magnitude to mean profitability. ..It doesn't mean I think they are well run though....
Well nowt has changed since then with regards to contracts. Sounds like Short just learned what Premier League footballers earn.
 
Well nowt has changed since then with regards to contracts. Sounds like Short just learned what Premier League footballers earn.
No but drumaville left him with the start of it and players who won't go on siily money when the tv cash was a lot less re the wage bill....

He must rue the day he met niiall at the golf..
 
Why can't it? Losses lead to debt.
Have you missed the money we have spent on crap and the numerous posts about our wage bill being huge?
Year on year you'd need losses in excess of £20M for the debt to be built up like this and you can't tell me that some of our expenditure hasn't been underwritten by Short so how are we spending our money. Are the debts this high cause we keep sacking managers and staff, is it also this high cause we've signed shit players for high fees? There's no way a chairman who is the leading advocate of FFP has allowed things to get this bad without knowing what's going on, so what the fuck has gone on. How do the accounts effect the potential to do business over the coming seasons? What plans and measures are in place to allow us to get on an even keel financially, and improve the club?
 
No but drumaville left him with the start of it and players who won't go on siily money when the tv cash was a lot less re the wage bill....

He must rue the day he met niiall at the golf..
Agree with that, but nothing has been done to correct it. That 2nd highest turnover wages ratio on Swiss Ramble backs that up and made a loss last year when most clubs made a profit. From a football point of view we haven't moved forwarded either. 6 years and nothing has changed. Drumaville should be very far down the list of people to blame is my main point.

:lol: I thought it was the races? I honestly dont have anything against him mind, feel sorry for him to be honest.
 
Agree with that, but nothing has been done to correct it. That 2nd highest turnover wages ratio on Swiss Ramble backs that up and made a loss last year when most clubs made a profit. From a football point of view we haven't moved forwarded either. 6 years and nothing has changed. Drumaville should be very far down the list of people to blame is my main point.

:lol: I thought it was the races? I honestly dont have anything against him mind, feel sorry for him to be honest.
To be fair what can you to correct it when you need to keep signing to keep up and those already there have good long term contracts....

It's a difficult situation you can only offset by unearthing gems which gets harder or having saleable assets which we never really have..
 
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