These bible yellers in the town centre.

dcl0sc

Striker
Ask them "If you're not talking bullshit, explain how dinosaurs came about then?"... send them mental... :lol:
 


Keawyeds

Striker
In a way I admire them for speaking in public but they do utter some shite, heard one the other day say something like jesus has spoken ladies and gentlemen and says adidas trainers up to 50 percent of at JD Sports, he was standing outside JD Sports like so could be a way to get customers.
Really? Wow...
 
You are allowed your opinion that it is all made up but I disagree. I academically studied 'The Synoptic Gospels' for two years and the evidence that proved many accounts were factual. But you are allowed to disagree based on your limited knowledge of such study. ;)
I'd be interested to know what that evidence was and I'm not being facetious. As far as I am aware the only evidence for Jesus (Yeshua) historically reliable is that he was a disciple of John the Baptist (Johannine) and that after the execution of John by Herod, Jesus led a mission into Jerusalem where he was executed by the Romans for sedition. Jesus was then succeeded by his brother James (Yacob) until he too was murdered by those acting on behalf of the High Priests (Sadducees) just prior to the Roman War that resulted in the destruction of the Temple around 70 CE. The Sicarii (Assassins - Avenging Priests) did avenge the murder of James and then led the final stand at Masada while Simon the Zealot (possibly another brother of Jesus) led the Ebionites (early followers of Jesus and James) to the relative safety of Pella in Jordan. Scholars consider Ebionite and Essene (based at Jericho and Qumran) to be synonymous and the Essene along with all the messianic sects, considered James to be the Saddik (Supreme Teacher of Righteousness). The Essene hid their scriptures (the Dead Sea Scrolls) in the caves of Qumran but never returned. It is reasonable to conclude that both Jesus and John before him were also considered to be the Saddik while they were alive.
Pilate definately existed, we know he was the governor of Judea at the right time.

Doubt he'd have had any guilt to wash his hands of like, he probably had a load of proto-hippies called Yeshua crucified.

I'm not suggesting the Bible is historical fact obviously.
This is true. He crucified thousands at the slightest excuse and conducted genocide in the hills of Samaria. He was recalled by Rome because of his excessive brutality that went too far even by Roman standards and hated the Jews. The way he is portrayed in the New Testament is totally fictional and obviously an attempt to appease Rome by the gentile authors of the gospels in a made up story blaming the Jews.
.....Confusing Stuff the bible really depends on which version you read, seems we have the edited version anyway think it was the Roman Emperor Constantine that repackaged the bible around 300AD to bring all the Christian sects together. God forbid leaving anything of importance in with regards women, seems anything written down by the ladies didn't make the cut!.....
And declared the Ebionites (the actual followers of Jeus and James at the time) to be heretics because they denied Jesus was a divine incarnation but a human being.
 
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pinewaves1868

Central Defender
In some places they have classes to learn how to refute logical arguments contradicting religion. Even to the extent of having kids and adults arguing against, for example, evolution in school lessons.
Whenever they can they talk about ‘proof‘ and ‘evidence’ but as soon as their proof is found lacking they start talking about ‘belief’. You can’t present evidence about somebody’s beliefs.
The bit about teaching good behaviour and treating people right is a smokescreen imho. What was taught for 1500 years and longer is that you can be an evil twatter as long as you say you’re sorry a microsecond before you die.
 

JonMc

Striker
IAnd declared the Ebionites (the actual followers of Jesus and James at the time) to be heretics because they denied Jesus was a divine incarnation but a human being.
Did he do that? I suppose there was no place for a wise man in a Rome traditionally watched over by powerful Gods. You need to replace power with power. Political move. Marginalize the group most dangerous to you.
 
Did he do that? I suppose there was no place for a wise man in a Rome traditionally watched over by powerful Gods. You need to replace power with power. Political move. Marginalize the group most dangerous to you.
I am not sure he did personally but the Church Council he established declared them heretic. Despite the murders of John, Jesus and James, the Ebionites after fleeing Palestine settled in Syria, Arabia and Egypt where they continued to flourish and were challenging the new Christian religion that was emerging based on a supernatural Jesus called the Christ. The Gospel of John was then composed to try and stem their popularity with a more gnostic content compared to the earlier Synoptic Gospels. While it is unlikely to have been written by the disciple John himself it did emerge from the Johannine community that had been established in Egypt. A development of the Ebionites in Syria and elsewhere were the Nestorians. A young Muhammad met a Nestorian called Bahira on his travels in Syria with his uncle and his cousin Waraka was an Ebionite who was the first to advise Muhammad when he began having visions. Waraka remained a Companion of Muhammad but never converted. Muhammad also heard on several occasions a wandering Ebionite/Nestorian preacher called Al Quass and Muhammad loved his sermons so much he had a Companion record them in writing for later recital. So the Ebionite beliefs played a large part in early Muhammadism and they were probably the source for much of the historical stories in the later Quran. It's interesting that much of Muhammad's antagonism was to the established Christian belief in the Jesus son of god claim and their worship of the Trinity. The name Allah is an Arabic derivitive of the Hebrew name for god Elohim before Yahweh became popular.
 
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JonMc

Striker
I am not sure he did personally but the Church Council he established declared them heretic. Despite the murders of John, Jesus and James, the Ebionites after fleeing Palestine settled in Syria, Arabia and Egypt where they continued to flourish and were challenging the new Christian religion that was emerging based on a supernatural Jesus called the Christ. The Gospel of John was then composed to try and stem their popularity with a more gnostic content compared to the earlier Synoptic Gospels. While it is unlikely to have been written by the disciple John himself it did emerge from the Johannine community that had been established in Egypt. A development of the Ebionites in Syria and elsewhere were the Nestorians. A young Muhammad met a Nestorian called Bahira on his travels in Syria with his uncle and his cousin Waraka was an Ebionite who was the first to advise Muhammad when he began having visions. Waraka remained a Companion of Muhammad but never converted. Muhammad also heard on several occasions a wandering Ebionite/Nestorian preacher called Al Quass and Muhammad loved his sermons so much he had a Companion record them in writing for later recital. So the Ebionite beliefs played a large part in early Muhammadism and they were probably the source for much of the historical stories in the later Quran. It's interesting that much of Muhammad's antagonism was to the established Christian belief in the Jesus son of god claim and their worship of the Trinity. The name Allah is an Arabic derivitive of the Hebrew name for god Elohim before Yahweh became popular.
You've reported that story before but this time a little more meat was on the bones. Thanks for that.
 
You've reported that story before but this time a little more meat was on the bones. Thanks for that.
I think the problem is that their are two issues. Firstly, the religion of Christianity based on the concepts of Paul and the teachings of Jesus. A political process has been at work from the very beginning but that doesn't invalidate the actual teachings of Jesus. The Gospels are suspect. The earliest written was Mark who was companion of Luke and Luke was a companion of Paul. I have no idea who Matthew was but I doubt if it was the disciple named as Matthew in the New Testament. Both the Gospels of Luke and Matthew were based on the Gospel of Mark in which Jesus first appears for the Baptism with Water by his master John. There is no virgin birth or supernatural conception in Mark and the resurrection scene has been added later in a different form of Greek. The historian Josephus describes the Baptism with Water by John as a graduation ceremony for those who had achieved righteousness. The initiation ceremony credited to Jesus is Baptism with Spirit and in Acts this is described as being performed by Jesus by Breathing on the disciple, no doubt so they could synchronise their breath with his. Basically the rest of the teachings of Jesus are sermons on mindfulness to make it easier for the disciples to go within and remember that experience of Baptism with Spirit. It was a pragmatic and gnostic teaching that was similar to the Essene and carried on by James after the death of Jesus.

This method was what is called Works in the Bible but Paul fought against this teaching that was being continued by James in Jerusalem and replaced it with Faith which was then incorporated into the New Testament and the religion of Christianity while the gnostic Ebionites who emphasised Works were eventually declared heretic. Christians deny this early schism in the teachings but it is as clear as day if you read the letters of Paul especially Galatians. There is no evidence Simon Peter ever visited Rome and Paul makes no mention of him having done so in his letter to the Romans but they needed a major figure to legitimise the Church in Rome and who better than the Rock although best not to include his gospel, fragments of which could cast doubt on whether Jesus actually died on the cross along with some writings of James which describe Jesus talking to disciples before he did die, possibly from his wounds at a later date.
 
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