The time has come for football to start asking some difficult questions about remembrance

turnthetide3

Goalkeeper
What should be a one-day event has now become a minimum of a week event - like bonfire night and black Friday. I really hope Valentine's is left alone....
 

Chewit

Winger
He raises a valid point, on Saturday night the TV was on and for about five minutes 'Strictly Come Dancing' was offending my ears and eyes with a fucking horrendous dance routine with the dancers wearing WW1 military uniforms in front of a bunch of celebrity wankers gushing about it. Thousands upon thousands of young men died in the most horrific ways imaginable just so that 100 years later it could be turned into a dance routine on Saturday night TV......there's definitely a lot to be said for quiet, dignified remembrance like it used to be rather than the whole 'I'm more thankful than you' bollocks we are subjected to these days
I thought that it was beautifully done and truly international as well.
What should be a one-day event has now become a minimum of a week event - like bonfire night and black Friday. I really hope Valentine's is left alone....
You not the romantic type? ;)
 
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Zak's Dad

Midfield
when did it change? i thought it was a badge it wore with pride?
It may well have in the past?
IIRC it started off as a centre supporting paper set up by ex-Times reporters sick of Murdoch insisting they spin articles to be pro-conservative in the eighties?

But in 2010 it urged people to vote Liberal Democrat when they were led by Nick Clegg, who had been a member of the student Conservative association at University and started out in politics as an advisor to Sir Leon Brittan when he was in Thatchers cabinet.
After he entered into a full coalition with the tories, their first act was to give anyone earning a million quid a year a tax cut worth £40,000, then they bailed out the banks, rolled out austerity for the poor and lumped debt of £10,000 per annum on students.
After 5 years of this the Independent told their readers that a continuation of the coalition would be a good thing in the 2015 election.

I don't know if they've given an opinion this time? But with the Lib Dem's now with a leader who was part of the coalition cabinet, who thinks zero hour contracts are a "good thing" and who has voted with the tories hundreds of times on austerity measures?

I wonder what definition of "Lefties", or "left wing" the other posters on the thread are using as a benchmark?
 

IanS

Midfield
What was wrong with a minute or two minute silence each season?

Now we have clubs flogging "limited edition" poppy shirts and some people (generally, not just in football) trying their best to outdo each other in how much they respect the fallen.

Quietly showing respect means so much more to vets and serving soldiers than buying a git big poppy or arguing why someone doesn't have one on their shirt
Quietly showing respect means so much more to vets and serving soldiers than buying a git big poppy or arguing why someone doesn't have one on their shirt . YES
 
Remembering falling soldiers giving their lives for generations that follow and people want it out, no big deal...but god forbid if anyone said anything about a rainbow flag or pin. A girl was kicked off US national team for it...it’s almost like there’s an agenda.
That could also be considered.
 

citybythesea

Midfield
Nothing wrong with rememberance it's a respectful act to bravery but I would like there to be renewed commitment to peace and diplomacy in the world. Even using the armistice day to honour and remember the fallen with resolve in preventing it happening again.
 
I have to say I completely agree with the article.
There’s been an explosion in making a huge deal of this in football over the last decade or so. A minutes silence on the weekend of rememberance sunday was always enough in the past so what changed?
And there is a definite correlation between deprived areas and patriotism. Just as there was with people who voted to leave the EU. Hardly a coincidence that Sunderland had the largest memorial service turnout outside London.
I realise this won’t be a popular view.
 

Noddy

Central Defender
Just what I'd expect from that disgusting rag. Thankfully we live in a country where people like Squires are free to sneer. Of course some of the behaviour surrounding Armistice Day is over the top and tasteless now, that's the world of 2019, but if it brings more money to help ex-servicemen and their dependants while reminding people what we owe to ordinary men and women then so be it.
Just what I'd expect from that disgusting rag. Thankfully we live in a country where people like Squires are free to sneer. Of course some of the behaviour surrounding Armistice Day is over the top and tasteless now, that's the world of 2019, but if it brings more money to help ex-servicemen and their dependants while reminding people what we owe to ordinary men and women then so be it.
Who is Squires sneering at?
If you think he's sneering at acts of remembering the fallen I disagree. To me he seems to making analogy of how this solemn occasion has been hijacked by virtue signallers and how the meaning has been twisted and commercialised in some ways Similar to how many argue against the desecration of Christmas and its message. 'its the most wonderful time of the year'... He's not sneering, he's right. It's only sneering when you disagree with though isn't it?
Why would it wind you up? He's a cartoonist and that's what cartoonists across the board have and should be doing. Provoking a discussion.
You seemingly have a entrenched hatred for the Guardian. You might not have noticed but there's a large movement of journalists and columnists who move from the Times to the telegraph and guardian and back again. A mark of a good paper is to even give voice to those with which it might not agree editorially. Plenty examples in the broadsheets mentioned. It's called debating. There's little point in drawing on the redundant left v right polarities to buttress your views. It simply isn't like that anymore. I wonder if you agree that the developments that we've seen in the last five years with hijacking of the poppy as a natiolistic symbol are acceptable - the ones that he is attacking?
BTW I read most newspapers and I been reading them for years. I disagree with most on a lot of points but I can see where good journalism exists even if I disagree. I like it when my assumptions and entrenched views are challenged. The sun and mail and express are different though. That they do the tory's bidding isn't a problem - We have a free press after all - but that they do it in such a devious and duplicitous way that hoodwinks their readers is what makes them the fucking oily disgusting rags that they are. No more than propaganda machines however you look at it. the Guardian has a tradition of allowing itself to be a mouthpiece and for minority groups and hitherto stories that wouldn't make the pages of other papers. And therefore by nature you are going to get ideas that cut against the grain of the mainstream. That those ideas and the stories it bears witness to bother you is its virtue and a signal to me that it is serving a function in a world of fake news and charlatan reporters.
 

zinedine

Striker
I have to say I completely agree with the article.
There’s been an explosion in making a huge deal of this in football over the last decade or so. A minutes silence on the weekend of rememberance sunday was always enough in the past so what changed?
And there is a definite correlation between deprived areas and patriotism. Just as there was with people who voted to leave the EU. Hardly a coincidence that Sunderland had the largest memorial service turnout outside London.
I realise this won’t be a popular view.
Why are deprived areas more patriotic? That's just odd.
Maybe if subsequent governments over the decades hadn't actively deprived those deprived areas, those deprived areas wouldn't have voted for brexit.
 

LUBITSCH

Midfield
I have to say I completely agree with the article.
There’s been an explosion in making a huge deal of this in football over the last decade or so. A minutes silence on the weekend of rememberance sunday was always enough in the past so what changed?
And there is a definite correlation between deprived areas and patriotism. Just as there was with people who voted to leave the EU. Hardly a coincidence that Sunderland had the largest memorial service turnout outside London.
I realise this won’t be a popular view.
It will be a very popular view with those who think it's "cool" to run down this country. It won't be popular with those who are proud that Sunderland has the largest memorial service turnout outside of London. I'm in the latter category, the Guardianistas in the former. People who think their country can do no wrong are to be criticised, but those who think their country can do no right are far more contemptible.
To answer your question, if you really want an answer, I think one thing that changed was people rediscovering the stories of the Hearts players, the Clapton Orient players, Walter Tull and so many other footballers who lost their lives in The Great War. In my opinion it is a good thing that people have remembered their sacrifice, perhaps you disagree.
 

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