The system.


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We won't play two up front, so far me I would try a 4232. We need somebody between the lines who can pick the ball up and turn. It was so predictable that fletcher would have no support or runners beyond him.
I agree. Giacc or Alvarez might fulfill this role, but Gonadz just isn't at the moment.

For me Poyets system is dependent upon 7 key positions; interchangeable and hard working fullbacks and wingers. 2 defensive midfielders, a false 10. We've got the midfielders and possibly the fullbacks if fit and one of the wingers. It's the other 2 attacking players that we are still short of.
 
There 100 per cent is. We play 3 deep centre mids which leaves fletcher far too isolated, there is just no way he can score goals consistently in this system.

Totally disagree, I think it works away from home and against the big sides, but against teams like hull at home it doesn't work, and that has been proved over the last year under Poyet.

Nobody is saying get rid of it, but there is no need to play it 90 mins of every game.

Again, you're not really talking about systems. Its not even a question of player types as both Larsson and Gomez are ostensibly attack minded midfielders. Todays game was 90 mins of us being uncreative but there were plenty of changes to the system. We're solid and difficult to beat but lack any real creativity. We don't solve this by reorganising the players we have. We solve it by buying better players IMO.
 
Again, you're not really talking about systems. Its not even a question of player types as both Larsson and Gomez are ostensibly attack minded midfielders. Todays game was 90 mins of us being uncreative but there were plenty of changes to the system. We're solid and difficult to beat but lack any real creativity. We don't solve this by reorganising the players we have. We solve it by buying better players IMO.

Larsson isn't at all

Mate you must be the only one to think this

we sit deep and try and not give anything a way

we have only won 3 games and it is new year next week

we are far too defensive minded and it the formation for that

Larsson is picked as a workhorse, Gomez is meant to be attacking but he never gets anywhere near supporting the striker

Have you literally not watched us play this season? it sounds like it, times against Hull there was nobody within 40 yards of Fletcher

Now that has everything to do with the system, if you were playing a number 10, like a Sess, he would be a lot nearer to him

It is basic stuff mate
 
Poyet is right to not change his system. He'll have clearly gone over this with the owner and the twat director plenty of times what he needs, long before the season started.

The thing that needs to change here is the god awful director of football shite. It just doesnt work in England. It's a system used by piss poor Italian sides who need to scrape every penny they can in order to stay functional as a club.
 
Larsson isn't at all

Mate you must be the only one to think this

we sit deep and try and not give anything a way

we have only won 3 games and it is new year next week

we are far too defensive minded and it the formation for that

Larsson is picked as a workhorse, Gomez is meant to be attacking but he never gets anywhere near supporting the striker

Have you literally not watched us play this season? it sounds like it, times against Hull there was nobody within 40 yards of Fletcher

Now that has everything to do with the system, if you were playing a number 10, like a Sess, he would be a lot nearer to him

It is basic stuff mate
The only basic stuff on show here is your reasoning (if you're determined to get all het up and start throwing about insults as per usual). There are countless teams around the globe who play exactly our formation and create more than us. We went 4-3-1-2 for a half today against 10 men and created nowt. And the answer is to put in a number 10? Balls. The answer is to put in some better players and to take more responsibility when we have the ball.

Sess might have made a difference today but there isn't a manager in the world who can select the lad knowing he'll perform on that particular day. And for the rest of the time hed leave us woefully exposed in the most important area of the pitch. We are what we are. Midtable fodder. Sometimes the players perfom. Sometimes they don't. We need better ones but money is tight and our squad going into this season was threadbare. We have to play the long game IMO.
 
The only basic stuff on show here is your reasoning (if you're determined to get all het up and start throwing about insults as per usual). There are countless teams around the globe who play exactly our formation and create more than us. We went 4-3-1-2 for a half today against 10 men and created nowt. And the answer is to put in a number 10? Balls. The answer is to put in some better players and to take more responsibility when we have the ball.

Sess might have made a difference today but there isn't a manager in the world who can select the lad knowing he'll perform on that particular day. And for the rest of the time hed leave us woefully exposed in the most important area of the pitch. We are what we are. Midtable fodder. Sometimes the players perfom. Sometimes they don't. We need better ones but money is tight and our squad going into this season was threadbare. We have to play the long game IMO.

So you really don't think the system leaves Fletcher isolated? It was hard to watch against Hull.

I am sorry mate, I respect your defense of it, but we barely create a chance under it, it isn't just down to quality mate, we are hardly ahead of the likes of Burnley point wise

I am more talking about the Hull game, that was a complete and utter fuck up by SAFC, against an awful Hull side, we couldn't get near them,

are you seriously suggesting that Hull XI had more quality than us?

I will say again, I would play it away from home against good sides and against all top 4 sides

the hull game, and one win away from home from palace, burnley, leicester, QPR, WBA and Villa is not great like
 
Poyet is right to not change his system. He'll have clearly gone over this with the owner and the twat director plenty of times what he needs, long before the season started.

The thing that needs to change here is the god awful director of football shite. It just doesnt work in England. It's a system used by piss poor Italian sides who need to scrape every penny they can in order to stay functional as a club.
f***ing hell man.
 
I personally think that with the squad we have 4231 is pretty much covered every single week.

Bridcutt Cattermole and rodwell complete for the 2. Others can cover that as well if you want one defensive and one more of a baller. Eg Gomez (bit like Ki doing it previously)

Then for the 3 we have, Giaccarini, Johnson, Buckley, Alvarez, Larson, Gomez who all have different attributes depending on the game.

Then for 1 upfront we have Wickham, Fletcher, and Altidore as an emergency option.

But it's irrelevant. Poyet plays his way and that's that.
 
Poyet is currently a younger o'neill with a better defence ...depends on the next couple of transfer windows but for me he is too safety first ..
 
Again, you're not really talking about systems. Its not even a question of player types as both Larsson and Gomez are ostensibly attack minded midfielders. Todays game was 90 mins of us being uncreative but there were plenty of changes to the system. We're solid and difficult to beat but lack any real creativity. We don't solve this by reorganising the players we have. We solve it by buying better players IMO.

If we are to stick to the system rigidly, then yes, better quality players are needed. The thing is though, the key to this system is the CM, and the players we play in it are simply not up to the required standard. Far far too often, they turn sideways or backwards rather than driving forward with the ball. They move the ball slowly as well when the do pass it. I don't expect us to sign one CM that will improve on those players though as we seem to be focusing on another defender and another striker (who will most likely be left isolated if getting a game).
 
So you really don't think the system leaves Fletcher isolated? It was hard to watch against Hull.

I am sorry mate, I respect your defense of it, but we barely create a chance under it, it isn't just down to quality mate, we are hardly ahead of the likes of Burnley point wise

I am more talking about the Hull game, that was a complete and utter fuck up by SAFC, against an awful Hull side, we couldn't get near them,

are you seriously suggesting that Hull XI had more quality than us?

I will say again, I would play it away from home against good sides and against all top 4 sides

the hull game, and one win away from home from palace, burnley, leicester, QPR, WBA and Villa is not great like
Nah the Hull game was a horror show - no excuses. But I don't think it was purely (or even primarily) down to formation. And I still say that a pen before half time would have seen us go on to win at a canter. In all honesty I don't know if our apparent defensive mentality comes from the players or from Gus himself. Probably both (moreso Gus I suspect). Changing that round is a long process, though. And it goes deeper than formation IMO
 
Nah the Hull game was a horror show - no excuses. But I don't think it was purely (or even primarily) down to formation. And I still say that a pen before half time would have seen us go on to win at a canter. In all honesty I don't know if our apparent defensive mentality comes from the players or from Gus himself. Probably both (moreso Gus I suspect). Changing that round is a long process, though. And it goes deeper than formation IMO

What is the explanation for having nobody within 40 yard of Fletcher for large periods of that game?
 
If we are to stick to the system rigidly, then yes, better quality players are needed. The thing is though, the key to this system is the CM, and the players we play in it are simply not up to the required standard. Far far too often, they turn sideways or backwards rather than driving forward with the ball. They move the ball slowly as well when the do pass it. I don't expect us to sign one CM that will improve on those players though as we seem to be focusing on another defender and another striker (who will most likely be left isolated if getting a game).
Agree with that, mind. Gomez' ability to slow a game down can be vital (see the Piggery last week) but there's often a need to have some real drive from there - particularly a game like today or Hull. Just imagine the difference that someone like Moussa Dembele would make in there. Surprised there isn't even a hint of us looking at this area.

What is the explanation for having nobody within 40 yard of Fletcher for large periods of that game?
Is that a cause of our poor performce or a symptom of it, though? Our inability to move the ball with any zip would probably have just left us with two men isolated up front and an outnumbered midfield.
 
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Agree with that, mind. Gomez' ability to slow a game down can be vital (see the Piggery last week) but there's often a need to have some real drive from there - particularly a game like today or Hull. Just imagine the difference that someone like Moussa Dembele would make in there. Surprised there isn't even a hint of us looking at this area.


Is that a cause of our poor performce or a symptom of it, though? Our inability to move the ball with any zip would probably have just left us with two men isolated up front and an outnumbered midfield.

Or a 6 feet plus English athlete that cost 10m??
 
Or a 6 feet plus English athlete that cost 10m??
Indeed. For a player trumpeted as a clear example of him getting his player and fashioning 'his team' he seems reluctant to use him. One thing I will say. His management of his central midfield is bizarre at times. He's certainly played the holiday period wrong in this area for one.
 
If we are to stick to the system rigidly, then yes, better quality players are needed. The thing is though, the key to this system is the CM, and the players we play in it are simply not up to the required standard. Far far too often, they turn sideways or backwards rather than driving forward with the ball. They move the ball slowly as well when the do pass it. I don't expect us to sign one CM that will improve on those players though as we seem to be focusing on another defender and another striker (who will most likely be left isolated if getting a game).
Agree mate, most games are won and lost in CM and our CM's are all passers. What we're desperate for (and have been for years) is a ball carrying CM who can drive at the heart of the opposition and commit people out of position to create space for others.
 
Or a 6 feet plus English athlete that cost 10m??

If he was played in the position that is supposedly his best position then we may well see it. I would love to see the impact on our team if he was the "deep lying" CM for a run of games.
 
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