The system.


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Don't often agree with you all the time but you are spot on here, I like Gus but his main weakness is he is too stubborn

We struggled in these games at home last season, it's why I am still worried about this season, it's ok having all these home Games but we struggle to win them

Hull were there for the taking, truly awful line up and they absolutely battered us. People can moan about hand balls but the best team won

If we had gone for the jugular after our first goal we would of won

Very frustrating
We won't play two up front, so far me I would try a 4232. We need somebody between the lines who can pick the ball up and turn. It was so predictable that fletcher would have no support or runners beyond him.
 
The only saving grace is that we are suited to absorb and break. This doesn't help us against the poor teams at home. Something that a lot of people have went on about as a positive.

Hopefully back to winning ways today. Or at least, come home with a point.
 
The only saving grace is that we are suited to absorb and break. This doesn't help us against the poor teams at home. Something that a lot of people have went on about as a positive.

Hopefully back to winning ways today. Or at least, come home with a point.
Big game today for me. With city in NYD we could really do with a win today. Suddenly changed the position from in danger to fairly comfortable as things stand. Can see a 0-0 or 1-0 defeat personally but we have to be targeting wins in games like this.

Rush goalie?
:lol: 4-2-3-1
 
Don't often agree with you all the time but you are spot on here, I like Gus but his main weakness is he is too stubborn

We struggled in these games at home last season, it's why I am still worried about this season, it's ok having all these home Games but we struggle to win them

Hull were there for the taking, truly awful line up and they absolutely battered us. People can moan about hand balls but the best team won

If we had gone for the jugular after our first goal we would of won

Very frustrating
Very little of that is to do with formation, though. All this stuff about how all of our problems would be solved if we went 4-2-3-1 is a straw man argument imo. There's nothing inherently defensive about the system we play. It's about its application, our attitude and level of positivity. Sometimes we click and sometimes we don't with the same players. I think that the simple truth is that there isn't a way of playing that will make this lot consistent high performers. and for all you say the best team won - and over the 90 that may be true on balance - we were the best team until half time and should have been a goal to the good. That we lost our heads so spectacularly is worrying but probably not all that surprising given what we've seen from our players over the last few years.

Maybe a complete change in system would get us a few more points over the season. However, we'd just be left trying to change system next year or recruiting for a system either we don't yet play (or worse, we don't intend to play for more than 12 months). We are on course to grind out survival with a little more to spare than last year. Assuming this comes to pass - and we've seen nothing to indicate that it won't as yet - then it makes sense for the club to play the long game on this one. Short term-ism has been one of the biggest problems for us during our Prem stay. I'd argue possibly the biggest. I'll take horror shows liked yesterday if it gets us to a better place in the long term.
 
Very little of that is to do with formation, though. All this stuff about how all of our problems would be solved if we went 4-2-3-1 is a straw man argument imo. There's nothing inherently defensive about the system we play. It's about its application, our attitude and level of positivity. Sometimes we click and sometimes we don't with the same players. I think that the simple truth is that there isn't a way of playing that will make this lot consistent high performers. and for all you say the best team won - and over the 90 that may be true on balance - we were the best team until half time and should have been a goal to the good. That we lost our heads so spectacularly is worrying but probably not all that surprising given what we've seen from our players over the last few years.

Maybe a complete change in system would get us a few more points over the season. However, we'd just be left trying to change system next year or recruiting for a system either we don't yet play (or worse, we don't intend to play for more than 12 months). We are on course to grind out survival with a little more to spare than last year. Assuming this comes to pass - and we've seen nothing to indicate that it won't as yet - then it makes sense for the club to play the long game on this one. Short term-ism has been one of the biggest problems for us during our Prem stay. I'd argue possibly the biggest. I'll take horror shows liked yesterday if it gets us to a better place in the long term.
However If Short isnt going to fund these better players suited to poyet he may as well move on to pastures greener
 
We need a few to suit his system so Its not rubbish eitger change players ir manager as it wont work
And any new manager will need 'time' to adjust to his new system and then want players in to use it. It's a never ending cycle. The fact we have changed managers so regularly has made it even worse.

The idea of changing manager again is better for squad and future is laughable. Maybe for half a season or 10 games. But long term, we are back were we started. It's the thing we need to get away from most.
 
And any new manager will need 'time' to adjust to his new system and then want players in to use it. It's a never ending cycle. The fact we have changed managers so regularly has made it even worse.

The idea of changing manager again is better for squad and future is laughable. Maybe for half a season or 10 games. But long term, we are back were we started. It's the thing we need to get away from most.
I agree but tbf Poyets style just Isnt suited to triers hes even gone as far himself and to me that is aimed at tge owner .To see it work money will have to be spent and that doesnt look likely so this grind will just go on and on til one says fuck it . This is a slightly different scenario to say pulis as his style is acceptable and adaptable to most . Theres not a cat in hells chance Poyet will see his dream with the current squad and that includes some "he" has brought in .
 
I agree but tbf Poyets style just Isnt suited to triers hes even gone as far himself and to me that is aimed at tge owner .To see it work money will have to be spent and that doesnt look likely so this grind will just go on and on til one says fuck it . This is a slightly different scenario to say pulis as his style is acceptable and adaptable to most . Theres not a cat in hells chance Poyet will see his dream with the current squad and that includes some "he" has brought in .
Pulis spent a fortune at Stoke and still couldn't take them out the top 10, mark Hughes did.

Pulis is overrated
 
Which is what happens when your fastest defender is like a carthorse. After the subs I don't think anyone had any idea of what they were supposed to do. Very worrying.
Bringing on Altidore to play left wing summed it up for me
 
However If Short isnt going to fund these better players suited to poyet he may as well move on to pastures greener
I think he is - at least to the level permitted by the rules. We've got a solid squad in terms of numbers and the basics. We need an injection in quality through the spine of the team and - other than a worrying lack of links to midfielders - we seem to be looking for these players in terms of their profile and predicted cost.

That being said, getting players right for this type of system is not necessarily a matter of spending loads. Swansea built this sort of system on a youth product and a WHU reject - both of whom they successfully carried through from league 1. Southampton did similar. You could argue that they got more out of players specifically because they kept them within a specific system for an extended period of time. If we stick with one method of playing for an extended period of time - particularly one which doesn't rely on physicality to succeed - I'd be willing to bet that our best successes will come from them youth system.
 
Because we haven't got the players to change it, we are going to lose games, we are a average prem side, we will win games as in mags last wk, and will lose and draw plenty, every time we get beat (which hasn't been that many times) people jump straight on poyets back about his tactics, we will lose games, it was just a shite performance
And it stunk of exactly what poyet discussed when he got here. The rot somewhere at the core of the club in think exactly what you said. Its ok if we lose games every now and then...its sunderland. Its games like that against teams like hull that we have lost for years and are the reason we are not moving forward.
In regards to players, of course we have the players. We have many attacking minded players which should have been utilised and the formation changed like we have many defensive style players such as catts and bridcutt who work well in poyets style. We should have gone for it, 1-0 up and we sat back. It was wrong and it cannot be argued against
 
Why will Poyet not change it? Regardless of opposition of situation?

It's a strange one for me. Hull were lacking everything today. We have them the opportunity for a foothold in the came. Slow, predicable and boring.
IMO we have such a slow defence we cant change the system or slow build up play too much.
 
Very little of that is to do with formation, though. All this stuff about how all of our problems would be solved if we went 4-2-3-1 is a straw man argument imo. There's nothing inherently defensive about the system we play. It's about its application, our attitude and level of positivity. Sometimes we click and sometimes we don't with the same players. I think that the simple truth is that there isn't a way of playing that will make this lot consistent high performers. and for all you say the best team won - and over the 90 that may be true on balance - we were the best team until half time and should have been a goal to the good. That we lost our heads so spectacularly is worrying but probably not all that surprising given what we've seen from our players over the last few years.

Maybe a complete change in system would get us a few more points over the season. However, we'd just be left trying to change system next year or recruiting for a system either we don't yet play (or worse, we don't intend to play for more than 12 months). We are on course to grind out survival with a little more to spare than last year. Assuming this comes to pass - and we've seen nothing to indicate that it won't as yet - then it makes sense for the club to play the long game on this one. Short term-ism has been one of the biggest problems for us during our Prem stay. I'd argue possibly the biggest. I'll take horror shows liked yesterday if it gets us to a better place in the long term.

There 100 per cent is. We play 3 deep centre mids which leaves fletcher far too isolated, there is just no way he can score goals consistently in this system.

Totally disagree, I think it works away from home and against the big sides, but against teams like hull at home it doesn't work, and that has been proved over the last year under Poyet.

Nobody is saying get rid of it, but there is no need to play it 90 mins of every game.
 
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