The system (part 3)


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I think we have to be realistic, 4-3-3 isn't really going to work
I think our squad is best suited to 3-5-2
----------Pants
------Jos Coates Kaboul
Jones(mathews)---------PVA
-------Catts Seb Gomez
---------Lens--Fletcher

Gomez isn't great but he offers something, good at keeping the ball and can score goals. Johnson/Defoe could come in for Lens

4-4-1-1 would also work but would relay on Jones and PVA being able to defend, I feel we need 3 cms just to be able to compete with other teams

Poyet tried 3 5 2 and was destroyed on here for not knowing what to do.
 
Not being funny mate as I know you are just trying to talk tactics - fair enough. But it kinda is an attack on the manager. If you think he set up wrong and that's the reason we got beat, then that is an anti manager thing and very similar to what people have said about past managers.

Dick is likely to line up next week wth a similar system...... Maybe the on,y way to change the system is to change manager?

Not at all. We can debate it and say he may have got things right and wrong. There is no point in just agreeing to all of the managers decision in case it is deemed that someone may attack him. It's a forum. This is what people are here to do, the sensible ones anyway.

Also, we won't set up the same. I guarantee we will change the system.
 
Not being funny mate as I know you are just trying to talk tactics - fair enough. But it kinda is an attack on the manager. If you think he set up wrong and that's the reason we got beat, then that is an anti manager thing and very similar to what people have said about past managers.

Dick is likely to line up next week wth a similar system...... Maybe the on,y way to change the system is to change manager?
Hardly an attack when the manager admitted he got the shape wrong in his post match interview and changed to 442 after 30mins is it?
 
Not at all. We can debate it and say he may have got things right and wrong. There is no point in just agreeing to all of the managers decision in case it is deemed that someone may attack him. It's a forum. This is what people are here to do, the sensible ones anyway.

Also, we won't set up the same. I guarantee we will change the system.

Fair enough. I just don't see tactics as the issue. As I said before, if a message board can come up with solutions that an experienced international manager can't see during the game then he isn't the man for us.

IMHO - Having the same rabble as last season - that is the issue.
 
Fair enough. I just don't see tactics as the issue. As I said before, if a message board can come up with solutions that an experienced international manager can't see during the game then he isn't the man for us.

IMHO - Having the same rabble as last season - that is the issue.

Not doubting that a higher quality squad is needed mate. It absolutely is and is one, if not the main issue. However, we certainly have the right to question set ups and if people raise valid points that can be seen by supporter eyes, I see no point. Would be no point in the forum if we just went with the footballing higher qualified authority.
 
Hardly an attack when the manager admitted he got the shape wrong in his post match interview and changed to 442 after 30mins is it?


I happen to think it's our inability to act in the transfer market meaning we have largely the same players - therefore we have all the same failings as last season.

You think it's the manager though? That's why we were three down after half an hour - we were set up wrong?
 
I happen to think it's our inability to act in the transfer market meaning we have largely the same players - therefore we have all the same failings as last season.

You think it's the manager though? That's why we were three down after half an hour - we were set up wrong?
Where did I state ny opinion? I pointed out what DA said and did!

Personally I agree with the points raised by the OP and yourself, we haven't addressed our lack of quality in CM and therefore our ability to retain possession especially in the attacking third of the pitch.
 
The main issue we have, and have had for years now, is that our central midfield do not create nor contribute to the goals tally anywhere near enough. It's the most important area on the pitch and we have 3 grafters with no pace, trickery or flair. .....the worry is that Mvila simply isn't going to change that so don't anybody get their hopes up there.

I said it enough in the days before kick off, but we are essentially the same side as last year so why anybody was shocked yesterday is a mystery.

The only crumb of comfort is that I can't believe Dick would have agreed to come back without some sort of guarantee on transfer spend.
The exact same words were said about Gus at the beginning of last season, he was hung out to dry...
 
Not doubting that a higher quality squad is needed mate. It absolutely is and is one, if not the main issue. However, we certainly have the right to question set ups and if people raise valid points that can be seen by supporter eyes, I see no point. Would be no point in the forum if we just went with the footballing higher qualified authority.

Agree to some extent mate. Always good to talk tactics and that....

However the day I think I can see obvious tactical failings (that the manager can't see) is the day I turn on the manager. Which is why I'm saying all this.

My twopenneth then now we are all at it.

In my opinion dick is trying to square a circle. Poyet got sacked for playing too negative - dick is getting stick for having attacking full backs tat get caught defensively. (Simply cos they aren't that good! They can attack or defend IMHO they can't do both like the good players).

Our best striker, Defoe, must play but he can't play up front on his own. Sadly however we have a shit midfield so we also need to play 3 in midfield otherwise we get overrun. 12 players are needed

Spine of a team is needed. Centre half centre mid centre forward need to be signed (not the 2m cheapies as dick says). Then we could play any system we wanted and dominate some games and have a goal threat.

All comes back to the quality of player IMHO

The exact same words were said about Gus at the beginning of last season, he was hung out to dry...

This. The similarities to previous seasons are uncanny.

Where did I state ny opinion? I pointed out what DA said and did!

Personally I agree with the points raised by the OP and yourself, we haven't addressed our lack of quality in CM and therefore our ability to retain possession especially in the attacking third of the pitch.

So we all agree - it's the players lack of quality not the system :)
 
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I think we have to be realistic, 4-3-3 isn't really going to work
I think our squad is best suited to 3-5-2
----------Pants
------Jos Coates Kaboul
Jones(mathews)---------PVA
-------Catts Seb Gomez
---------Lens--Fletcher

Gomez isn't great but he offers something, good at keeping the ball and can score goals. Johnson/Defoe could come in for Lens

4-4-1-1 would also work but would relay on Jones and PVA being able to defend, I feel we need 3 cms just to be able to compete with other teams

Leicester play 3-4-1-2.


Would anyone swap King or Drinkwater for Cattermole? Would they fuck.

Our players played below what they are capable of yesterday and for that they should be fucked out of it.

We could line out with 3 at the back, Catts & M'Vila in midfield, Johnson in the Mahrez role with Defoe & Lens up front. But as we showed under Gus, you can't just switch tactics & formations at the drop of the hat, it's a pretty drastic change too. It could solve our problems, there are a good few teams trying it in recent seasons.

But we were rarely that disorganised and bad defensively last season- even in the games against Villa & Palace, we weren't sliced through as easily, it was just long balls over the top that we couldn't deal with. Leicester came at us from all angles.
 
I reckon the club would rather have sold any of the other strikers but no-one wanted any of them. Things haven't really changed here....we are still selling to fund buys.
I'm sure they would. However I doubt they were that bothered about wickham going. Fairly sure they would have been able to make their peace with Defoe leaving anarl. Thought you said you'd be happy to see any of them go?
 
I'm sure they would. However I doubt they were that bothered about wickham going. Fairly sure they would have been able to make their peace with Defoe leaving anarl. Thought you said you'd be happy to see any of them go?

Yeah, I said there were issues with all of of them and would be happy to see all four leave......but it's on the basis that better is brought in. I know the retort will be that we've replaced Wickham with Lens but the reality is that as we failed to line up a suitable Borini replacement we had to put a square peg in a round hole by playing Wickham there, who is essentially a central striker.

If we bring in Austin or Sow for that role then fine but I suspect the "too many strikers" comments means it was simply a money raising exercise......and we do have form for doing this.

I know it's only one game and I shouldn't say this but I really wanted that Dutch lad Wijnaldum here......he really seemed to fit the profile of the advanced CM that we have needed for years...... @jsdftm04 seems to think we were interested but declared him out of our price range......that's very sad if true and tells you everything you need to know about how we run things.
 
Yeah, I said there were issues with all of of them and would be happy to see all four leave......but it's on the basis that better is brought in. I know the retort will be that we've replaced Wickham with Lens but the reality is that as we failed to line up a suitable Borini replacement we had to put a square peg in a round hole by playing Wickham there, who is essentially a central striker.

If we bring in Austin or Sow for that role then fine but I suspect the "too many strikers" comments means it was simply a money raising exercise......and we do have form for doing this.

I know it's only one game and I shouldn't say this but I really wanted that Dutch lad Wijnaldum here......he really seemed to fit the profile of the advanced CM that we have needed for years...... @jsdftm04 seems to think we were interested but declared him out of our price range......that's very sad if true and tells you everything you need to know about how we run things.

I hope we don't lash out huge funds on the striker. Would prefer it to go on a CM they fancy. Signed plenty of defenders but would love an excellent one through the door and Coates to be shown his place on the bench. Don't see that happening though
 
I hope we don't lash out huge funds on the striker. Would prefer it to go on a CM they fancy. Signed plenty of defenders but would love an excellent one through the door and Coates to be shown his place on the bench. Don't see that happening though

I think once Kaboul is up to speed he and Coates will be ok. I know you dint rate him but I think he is ok as second ch.

Problems are in the middle. Not mobile, not creative, not good at tracking and marking, can't hold possession. Beginning to wonder what they ARE good at.
 
I think once Kaboul is up to speed he and Coates will be ok. I know you dint rate him but I think he is ok as second ch.

Problems are in the middle. Not mobile, not creative, not good at tracking and marking, can't hold possession. Beginning to wonder what they ARE good at.

Midfielders are an issue fully agree but defensively we were disgusting. JOS back in. At least one midfielder who can carry the ball and be driving is needed.
 
Midfielders are an issue fully agree but defensively we were disgusting. JOS back in. At least one midfielder who can carry the ball and be driving is needed.

All three are so slow it's astounding. Caught on the ball all the time and by the time they are ready to play a pass there are no options.

I'd peddle all three based on yesterday.
 
I think once Kaboul is up to speed he and Coates will be ok. I know you dint rate him but I think he is ok as second ch.

Problems are in the middle. Not mobile, not creative, not good at tracking and marking, can't hold possession. Beginning to wonder what they ARE good at.
Games where we employ backs to the wall defending on the edge of our box like Everton and Arsenal away last season. When tasked with doing the other part of a midfielders role in taking the game to the opposition, that's when their limitations are brought to the fore.
 
Games where we employ backs to the wall defending on the edge of our box like Everton and Arsenal away last season. When tasked with doing the other part of a midfielders role in taking the game to the opposition, that's when their limitations are brought to the fore.

That's like a few of our players. It's easy to do, backs to the wall defending. One mind set and 1 job. When you have to make decisions and move forward and contribute to both sides of the game, that is when it gets tough. I mentioned this about Coates before we bought him. Was only good in the Alamo type games. Was horrendous before. At 2m he is bench quality.

I do think the others have more quality, only just but we need to get a plan and am idea together. It looks like it's still pre season and the players are still learning what do to. That's not really acceptable when the season is in motion. I can pretty much guarantee that Dick is going to change it for Saturday. That is at least something. Fletcher and Defoe will start so when we go direct, which we have a habit of doing far to early, at least there is something to hit and hopefully the ball will not come straight back.

Rodwell is on the thinnest of ice and is running out of time to show folk that he can become a good players. Looks miles behind everything, stretches and lunges for everything, slow on the ball, passing shit and blows out his arse from 60 mins. Seriously, has went way back. A loan would have been best and fuck him off after last year. Got to try and make it work for him now though. To much money invested and we wouldn't be able to shift him on.
 
I hope we don't lash out huge funds on the striker. Would prefer it to go on a CM they fancy. Signed plenty of defenders but would love an excellent one through the door and Coates to be shown his place on the bench. Don't see that happening though
It's was a combination of things
The midfield was atricious cb were a train wreck and the fullback exposed

Fitness looks poor and that is the big worry as you would have thought they would be approaching peak conditioning after a longish tour
 
It's was a combination of things
The midfield was atricious cb were a train wreck and the fullback exposed

Fitness looks poor and that is the big worry as you would have thought they would be approaching peak conditioning after a longish tour

It did. Looked way out of touch with conditioning and the way that Dick asked them to play.
 
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