The system (part 3)


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One thing I'm sure about is we won't miss Wickham. There was nothing Wickham could have done in that game that would have changed it. So it's clear to me that getting shot of him was a good idea, he was a pointless player who added nothing and would have missed the chances Fletcher and Defoe scored.

What we need is two midfielders, one like Ki and one like Fer, ball-retention, creativity and strength in the middle of the park.
This will change the entire team and how well it can play. It seems inevitablr to happen given dicks desire to get fer and mvila in. Just hope we dont fuck about too much and end up with no one. I trust dick..... and its not often i say that
 
Worked well last season... Now catts had a nightmare... And Rodwell a really bad start. And Lester a good plan
 
One thing I'm sure about is we won't miss Wickham. There was nothing Wickham could have done in that game that would have changed it. So it's clear to me that getting shot of him was a good idea, he was a pointless player who added nothing and would have missed the chances Fletcher and Defoe scored.

What we need is two midfielders, one like Ki and one like Fer, ball-retention, creativity and strength in the middle of the park.

You started posting some half-decent stuff lately but it looks like it must have been an aberration.

Worked well last season... Now catts had a nightmare... And Rodwell a really bad start. And Lester a good plan


Yeah, they jockeyed our players right from the off......
 
You started posting some half-decent stuff lately but it looks like it must have been an aberration.




Yeah, they jockeyed our players right from the off......
Maybe try to articulate why you disagree with what I believe is a fair assessment of things...
 
I am discussing our set up. Do I think it can be better? Yes. I feel that Dick got it very wrong yday and I am not afraid to day it. It's really clear the way he wants us to play however, we don't have the personnel for it. So therefore, CHANGE the set up!

Tbf mate if someone on a message board knows more about tactics than our manager, then he should be sacked immediately......
 
Maybe try to articulate why you disagree with what I believe is a fair assessment of things...

Tell me how we improved the team by selling our leading scorer. You said there was nothing he could have done to change things but his goals in season 2013/14 when he won the PL player of the month kept us on the gravy train. I'm no apologist for the lad but you didn't really think about what you said.
 
Normally I would agree with you. However, Dick puts so much emphasis on them to play as actual wing backs. He has said so many times and you can see our FB playing higher up the pitch. I think we should reign it in. Get them to defend, first and foremost anyway.
Nowt stopping them getting forward when it's the correct situation, they were doing it yesterday blindly without even knowing if we had possession, they shouldn't be bombing forward when the balls loose and nobody really has possesion
 
Tell me how we improved the team by selling our leading scorer. You said there was nothing he could have done to change things but his goals in season 2013/14 when he won the PL player of the month kept us on the gravy train. I'm no apologist for the lad but you didn't really think about what you said.
Leading scorer? :lol:

5 goals man, hardly irreplaceable is it? Defoe scored 4 in half the time.

I have thought about what I said, Wickham was a waste of space and no better at leading the line than Fletcher or Graham, and he sure as hell will never be the goalscorer Defoe is.

Dick knows his stuff, he saw that 9 million for an average striker was a good deal for us, so did the club. He was Bruce's mistake, we were paying dearly for having him on our books, it was time to flush that turd.

Wickham was part of many of our embarrassing defeats last season, he did fuck all to help us in those games, that's why I'm saying we need to address the real problem areas, and midfield is the the area most pathetically void of quality, defence a close second.
 
Sad thing... At the moment we don't have players for any system.

Totally agree mate. We need different players. It was obvious in May. We've done fuck all about it. We get what we deserve.

The right system bizarrely is probably a very defensive one.... Admit we are shite, shut up shop and try pinching a win here and there. We sacked poyet though after criticising his system aswell! Lol
 
If we could sign 2 players, i'd go RB and CM. The first two goals came from the right yesterday and I think Billy Jones is all effort but ultimately a second tier defender.

We are also desperate for someone to keep hold of it in the middle, whether by physical presence or skill at retaining possession. This not only provides a platform to start attacks but also relieves pressure on the defence. When the back 4 play it out, it got lost straight away yesterday and the pressure came straight back onto us.

Attacking wise we looked a lot better when Fletcher and Defoe linked up, this may have been down to the fact we had nothing to lose at 3-0 down.

A flat 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 with wing backs could also be an option. We definitely need another defender though. Even if (In my opinion he should) O'Shea starts ahead of Coates, that was pretty much our full strength back 5 yesterday and at times it was shockingly bad.
 
Leading scorer? :lol:

5 goals man, hardly irreplaceable is it? Defoe scored 4 in half the time.

I have thought about what I said, Wickham was a waste of space and no better at leading the line than Fletcher or Graham, and he sure as hell will never be the goalscorer Defoe is.

Dick knows his stuff, he saw that 9 million for an average striker was a good deal for us, so did the club. He was Bruce's mistake, we were paying dearly for having him on our books, it was time to flush that turd.

Wickham was part of many of our embarrassing defeats last season, he did fuck all to help us in those games, that's why I'm saying we need to address the real problem areas, and midfield is the the area most pathetically void of quality, defence a close second.

I reckon the club would rather have sold any of the other strikers but no-one wanted any of them. Things haven't really changed here....we are still selling to fund buys.
 
So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:
very sensible assessment that
 
I like that we have full-backs that can contribute to the attack. It's something we've lacked in the past.

But yesterday, we didn't even have the ball high enough up the pitch for long enough for them to really be pushing up, yet PVA was always out of position. Rodwell was covering at left-back for a lot of the game.

Defending set-pieces we were shit too. But if the midfield were a better outlet to receive passes, it would help a lot.
 
very sensible assessment that

Thanks. Sad as it is, it was literally the thoughts after 30 seconds of waking up and I typed it hungover and half asleep. Sure I was dreaming of the defensive shambles too!

Good post. The key for me is midfield. We need to be solid and responsible in there and there must be cover provided by fullback. I don't personally like 4-2-3-1 as it quickly turns into either a cavalier 4-2-4 and we get opened up or it becomes a stodgy 4-4-2 and we've got the wrong players out wide in lens and Johnson. We need the better ball retention you talk about and just simply a 100% improvement in the centre. We need mcila to work and one more genuine all round midfielder in plus any one of the remainder to make up a three

Quality is needed like. CM is so important and we seem to blow it all the time.
 
I like that we have full-backs that can contribute to the attack. It's something we've lacked in the past.

But yesterday, we didn't even have the ball high enough up the pitch for long enough for them to really be pushing up, yet PVA was always out of position. Rodwell was covering at left-back for a lot of the game.

Defending set-pieces we were shit too. But if the midfield were a better outlet to receive passes, it would help a lot.
its something we did when we had Alonso, defensively he wasnt the best but Borini always came back to offer support, wouldnt even get that chance given the errant passing from midfield yesterday
 
I agree 4-3-3 away from home was ambitious but it was Leicester and it was looking good till their first goal from a set piece.

If we are going to carry on with 4-3-3 then Defoe is not a central striker.
Fletcher (Who I'm not a massive fan of) made a huge difference, holding the ball lets us move up the pitch it also gives us another good player to have back for their set pieces
 
This is not an attack on the manager for anyone who thinks that way. More of a thread for people to put their thoughts across on how we are setting up and what they believe we could do to improve etc.
 
This is not an attack on the manager for anyone who thinks that way. More of a thread for people to put their thoughts across on how we are setting up and what they believe we could do to improve etc.

Not being funny mate as I know you are just trying to talk tactics - fair enough. But it kinda is an attack on the manager. If you think he set up wrong and that's the reason we got beat, then that is an anti manager thing and very similar to what people have said about past managers.

Dick is likely to line up next week wth a similar system...... Maybe the on,y way to change the system is to change manager?
 
I think we have to be realistic, 4-3-3 isn't really going to work
I think our squad is best suited to 3-5-2
----------Pants
------Jos Coates Kaboul
Jones(mathews)---------PVA
-------Catts Seb Gomez
---------Lens--Fletcher

Gomez isn't great but he offers something, good at keeping the ball and can score goals. Johnson/Defoe could come in for Lens

4-4-1-1 would also work but would relay on Jones and PVA being able to defend, I feel we need 3 cms just to be able to compete with other teams
 
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