The system (part 3)


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The main issue we have, and have had for years now, is that our central midfield do not create nor contribute to the goals tally anywhere near enough. It's the most important area on the pitch and we have 3 grafters with no pace, trickery or flair. .....the worry is that Mvila simply isn't going to change that so don't anybody get their hopes up there.

I said it enough in the days before kick off, but we are essentially the same side as last year so why anybody was shocked yesterday is a mystery.

The only crumb of comfort is that I can't believe Dick would have agreed to come back without some sort of guarantee on transfer spend.
If he can recapture the form he had at Rennes, he'll surprise people, he was a defensive midfielder but he was also a box to box midfielder, he can dictate play more than anyone in our squad, he can pass better than any of our current CMs. Add another more creative minded midfielder along with M'Villa and we'll look instantly better. I'm gutted we can't/won't wait for Fer, been watching his highlights lately and he's the sort of player we need when he's on form. I just hope his rejection makes us actually spend out for the right player at the right standard.
 
Should we not then find a system to fit the players we have?
Theres isnt one. See last 3-4 years for evidence. We have changed all parts of team but not centre mid. Other than ki who showed us how a midfielder should dictate a game.... funny isnt it, the one time we add a quality midfielder we look a million times better. Anyways, current personnel tells us there is no system that is effective
 
It blows my mind that people still suggest trying Rodwell at centre half, one of the worst tacklers I've ever seen.
 
If he can recapture the form he had at Rennes, he'll surprise people, he was a defensive midfielder but he was also a box to box midfielder, he can dictate play more than anyone in our squad, he can pass better than any of our current CMs. Add another more creative minded midfielder along with M'Villa and we'll look instantly better. I'm gutted we can't/won't wait for Fer, been watching his highlights lately and he's the sort of player we need when he's on form. I just hope his rejection makes us actually spend out for the right player at the right standard.
Its easy for us supporters to think its mass issues in the squad snd thst only changing one or two wont make a difference but personally i think having a whole new central midfield will transform what we have witnessed for years.
 
We just don't look organised at the back at all, it doesn't look like any of them have played together or even worked on a system, which is the biggest worry. Off days can happen but it's going to be difficult to get up to speed and settled in the system during the season.
 
We just don't look organised at the back at all, it doesn't look like any of them have played together or even worked on a system, which is the biggest worry. Off days can happen but it's going to be difficult to get up to speed and settled in the system during the season.


Doesn't help when we give the ball away so cheaply, it's always going to make you look bad when teams run at you in numbers and with acres of space.
If you can't keep the ball you've got little chance of winning football matches hoping to rely on your defence to bail you out.

It's time to change, get the defence playing as a 4 and not a 2 and the midfield playing as a midfield instead of the shambles that it is.
 
Doesn't help when we give the ball away so cheaply, it's always going to make you look bad when teams run at you in numbers and with acres of space.
If you can't keep the ball you've got little chance of winning football matches hoping to rely on your defence to bail you out.

It's time to change, get the defence playing as a 4 and not a 2 and the midfield playing as a midfield instead of the shambles that it is.

I agree. Think we need to make the fullbacks defensive instead of asking them to play as wing backs.
 
So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:

Good post, I like the idea of 4-2-3-1 aswell. But only if we buy a proper number 10. Larsson could still have an impact as a sub in either the Forward Right position with his crossing ability or alongside MVila.
 
3 midfielders who are much of a muchness 2 inept fullbacks and a lack of pace add up to a bit of a disaster, I still think we need to play to defoes strengths as he will get goals
 
I agree. Think we need to make the fullbacks defensive instead of asking them to play as wing backs.
I agree, until we get more comfortable with the system at least. If we are going to do that we'd probably need to swap Lens and Johnson and have them play as orthodox wingers too to provide some width.
 
I agree, until we get more comfortable with the system at least. If we are going to do that we'd probably need to swap Lens and Johnson and have them play as orthodox wingers too to provide some width.

I think they can do that job too. Obviously AJ has played there many times before however, think Lens is more forward thinking.
 
I've just posted similar in another thread. Not convinced by system and suggested 442 might provide more protection for pva especially.

Agree with coates too
Dick mentioned this in his BBC Newcastle interview. Said he's now realised Defoe cannot play as a lone striker so will likely be partnered from now on
 
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So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:


2 CH as strangers, and a weak, badly disciplined, badly led, and uncreative midfield, that's what happened.

Stenghten midfield, and add guile, and tighten CH, and we will do well.
 
Its easy for us supporters to think its mass issues in the squad snd thst only changing one or two wont make a difference but personally i think having a whole new central midfield will transform what we have witnessed for years.
Exactly none of us on here know the ins and outs of the squad, the training and the on pitch dynamic. One change in a key area can completely transform a team. The addition of someone to link the defence and attack will see the team play and set up totally different. This player needs to have pace, balance, ability, vision, and creativity. But they also need to work well with what we have.
 
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