The system (part 3)


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So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:
 
I've just posted similar in another thread. Not convinced by system and suggested 442 might provide more protection for pva especially.

Agree with coates too
 
So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:

Still one of the planets biggest mysteries like.
 
We have no CM's who dictate play, we need clattermole & Vila to protect the back four and a magician to wave his wand some fooka like Cabaye not this Roswell fooka.....
 
The ball retention is notoriously shite and has been for some time now. If we are expecting Cattermole and Rodwell to release a first time pass into an onrushing full back, we are going to be very disappointed, they constantly lose the ball when they have time to pick out a pass. The system is OK, it's the personnel trying to carry it out
 
Agree that the inability of our midfield to retain and pass the ball to their own players,exposes the fullbacks who have moved forward. Whilst that midfield is made up of the three who started yesterday I can't see that problem being fixed. As you say hopefully M'Vila will make a difference. We still need at least one more CM though ,as the thought of relying on Bridcutt and Gomez as back up ,scares me shitless.
 
The main issue we have, and have had for years now, is that our central midfield do not create nor contribute to the goals tally anywhere near enough. It's the most important area on the pitch and we have 3 grafters with no pace, trickery or flair. .....the worry is that Mvila simply isn't going to change that so don't anybody get their hopes up there.

I said it enough in the days before kick off, but we are essentially the same side as last year so why anybody was shocked yesterday is a mystery.

The only crumb of comfort is that I can't believe Dick would have agreed to come back without some sort of guarantee on transfer spend.
 
So, the first game of the season has been and gone and it really was a nightmare.

I am really disappointed how we crumbled and looked disjointed, unorganized and far to open to any form of attack. Yes, the players have to take individual responsibility for their actions and performances however, is the system a to blame ?

People make refer to last year when we played it and got points towards the last part of the season, however, we were in survival mode and the main objective was to defend deep and hope for a counter or to nick a goal. Yday, was not like that, it was meant to be an even game where attacking and defending should have been in equal proportions.

My concerns are, the fullbacks are getting bashed on here, and partially that is right however, I do think they are fighting a losing battle. Having played left back all my life, at a decent level, it's easy to see the faults that PVA made yday as an individual but also just as easy to see what an impossible job he had. Dick instructs the full backs to fly forward at every opportunity, it's more emphasis on attack than defense and you can see this as soon as any CM gets the ball, our full backs are bombing up the wing and are at the half way line quickly. The issue is, our CM is far to rash and poor in terms of ball retention, losing the ball far to quickly and turning over possession. This leaves the fullbacks out of position and exposed. If they don't make the run then we have no width at all and they will get pelters for that too. Furthermore, we ask the wide players to support the loan striker so they are high up the pitch, offering no cover at all to the full backs, again leaving then open to 2-1 situations.

The 2 CH need to be far more organized and know how each other want to play, far to many times one was playing offside and one was playing deep. Coates is a huge concern and should be replaced by JOS. Think JOS and Kaboul will be fine in the middle. More experience and should be more organized.

CM need to step up and hopefully M'vila can add better ball control and we can build attacks instead of losing the ball in the middle of one. Roswell needs to get sharp and quick. Cattermole has a head losing game, not his first and won't be his last.

Wide forwards done ok in the attacking sense, but we really will get hammered down the wings on a defensive side. Think we should change the shape.

Defoe, done what he has always done. Create and he will score. Nice finish and movement for his goal. Fletcher made mistakes when he came on but again, caused issues and made us more effective going forward. Good desire for the goal too.

Going forward ? Maybe a flag 4-4-2 might be better. Cover for the fullbacks and support for Defoe, who can play off Fletcher.

If we get Adanan Jan, maybe a 4-2-3-1 with Lens, Jan and AJ in behind the striker with Catts and M'Vila provide protection and balls forward to the attacking group.

Long winded but feel free to contribute some tactical thoughts. Probably just get we are shite like. :lol:
100% agree. Centre mid needs overhaul. Harsh on catts but its time to catch up to rest of league and compete with intelligent midfielders. I wish we had broke bank for Ki when we had chance. Perfect modern day midfielder who suited us. Having midfielders who arent comfortable on ball is long gone
 
The ball retention is notoriously shite and has been for some time now. If we are expecting Cattermole and Rodwell to release a first time pass into an onrushing full back, we are going to be very disappointed, they constantly lose the ball when they have time to pick out a pass. The system is OK, it's the personnel trying to carry it out

I often said that with Poyet
 
To be honest one of our biggest problems is we don't have the players to play any system. One of the problems with changing managers style and players every few months.
 
The ball retention is notoriously shite and has been for some time now. If we are expecting Cattermole and Rodwell to release a first time pass into an onrushing full back, we are going to be very disappointed, they constantly lose the ball when they have time to pick out a pass. The system is OK, it's the personnel trying to carry it out

You have to play a system with the players at your disposal though. We are never going to have world class players. This system has many weak points for me, average players get found out far to easily.
 
You've got it spot on with regards to ball retention mate, how many years now have we started with a midfield combination of Larsson and Cattermole and had these issues with our midfield not being good enough?
 
In this period of football history with this shower of shit on the books Im a 4231 man. But whatever system we use surely the players within that system need to be altered for the standard of opposition as well as the tactics within that system anarl?

Im a great believer in different teams for different teams if yernar what I mean. Away to Chelsea, City etc Id have Larsson wide right and Rodwell CM but at home to Watford & Villa etc Id start with Johnson and Giacci/Alvarez. etc.
 
100% agree. Centre mid needs overhaul. Harsh on catts but its time to catch up to rest of league and compete with intelligent midfielders. I wish we had broke bank for Ki when we had chance. Perfect modern day midfielder who suited us. Having midfielders who arent comfortable on ball is long gone
Not harsh on catts at all. He needs shifting as much as any other if we're going to get anywhere. f***ing 6 more years man.
 
I often said that with Poyet
and the personnel haven't changed. Poyet decided that the midfield couldn't play that way but decided to play 2 overlapping full backs or a centre half at right back. He wanted the personnel then the system. Dick wants to play attack minded, but doesn't have the midfield, but the system comes first. I suppose his thought process is, it's easier to get players into a system that you have adopted rather than chopping and changing it
What the fuck do I know anyhow, I'm too old for this shite. Bring back numbers 1-11, one substitute and a 5 minute kick about as a warm up

You have to play a system with the players at your disposal though. We are never going to have world class players. This system has many weak points for me, average players get found out far to easily.
I was busy posting a response to this. IMO Dick thinks it's easier to get players in to fit the system he wants to play. I'm hoping it's a sign that he will
 
and the personnel haven't changed. Poyet decided that the midfield couldn't play that way but decided to play 2 overlapping full backs or a centre half at right back. He wanted the personnel then the system. Dick wants to play attack minded, but doesn't have the midfield, but the system comes first. I suppose his thought process is, it's easier to get players into a system that you have adopted rather than chopping and changing it
What the fuck do I know anyhow, I'm too old for this shite. Bring back numbers 1-11, one substitute and a 5 minute kick about as a warm up


I was busy posting a response to this. IMO Dick thinks it's easier to get players in to fit the system he wants to play. I'm hoping it's a sign that he will

Aye, that is a point mind you. He won't take any shit and I expect yday to have meant an immediate meeting with LC and ES demanding cash getting spent.
 
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