The Super spoilery Star Wars : The Last Jedi spoilers thread *don't even put your mouse over it*



All about opinions. I enjoyed it despite some of the cringe moments (like the call at the beginning) and haven't over thunk it. Bairn enjoyed it and that's what matters most.

Ner is it fuck though. Star Wars is about more than just catering to kids. Should The Magnificent Seven cater to kids? The originals were more than 'kids films'. Indiana Jones is more than a kids film. Disney's own Pirates of the Caribbean series are more than just kids films. This whole idea of 'oh well the kids are happy' is a load of fuckin' shit.

This is the bit that bugs me, just because its a kids film, it doesn't mean the storyline has to be absolutely riddled with holes. They've got an essentially unlimited budget to write something that's good

Exactly. Plenty of kids films have been well made and stand up in their own right. The original Star Wars trilogy. Indy. Pirates of the Caribbean. Harry Potter. The Goonies. Shrek. Hook. Even fuckin' Toy Story. There's no excuse for the absolute shambles Disney have churned out here. None whatsoever. So fuck if a few bairns got a bit wide eyed seeing a yella bellied gonk on a space horse, it's fuckin' shit.[/QUOTE]
 
Yep, that's exactly my point. Loads of "kids stuff" is well written so that it stands up for adults to watch too. Like you said, Toy Story is a good example. Even the Simpsons back in the day
 
All about opinions. I enjoyed it despite some of the cringe moments (like the call at the beginning) and haven't over thunk it. Bairn enjoyed it and that's what matters most.

It is not really about opinions. What you are arguing is that any film, no matter how fundamentally bad it is, has as much merit as any other film, because individuals can have different opinions. I am arguing that the film really lacks any plot or the basic minimum consistency required to maintain any suspension of disbelief. It is just a load of stuff chucked into a film. It doesn't hang together, it is not paced, and it is completely claustrophobic. It is one of the worst films I have ever seen, and it is certainly the worst film I have seen with that level of production and effects. I have no idea how that script got greenlighted, and I am baffled how the guy has got another three films. It was a criminally bad idea to give the director full control over the script.

What is happening to Star Wars at present is that it is being made into something very mediocre. Part of the reason the prequels were rejected so badly was because the audience expected something outstanding. They have now had close to 20 years of really poor Star Wars films and the film companies still get a decent return for it. All they want to do is tick the boxes so there is lots of action and a few toys to sell. They don't care whether the film is actually any good. The problem is, this is starting to bite them on the bum. The merchandise had been selling abysmally this time around, and someone the quality of the items has got even lower. I think that when episode 9 comes out (and the other spin-off has been released) there is going to be a real plummet in the value of the franchise. They have alienated all of us that were the first time around with the neutering of Luke Skywalker. There are a generation of kids in their late-teens and early 20s that missed the original films when they came out and don't even understand how it was tied in with the toys and in its diluted form just see Star Wars as another franchise alongside Pirates of the Caribbean and Harry Potter etc. Star Wars is not special to a lot of people any more, and a lot of people are sick of it.

I'm watching a movie where a fella can chuck objects about using some telekinesis wizardry - I'm not going to get all bothered about one ship being faster than another one

But you are bothered even to have a go at us that are pointing out the weaknesses of the film? If you are happy with it and actually have no interest in the film, why have a go at us that are pointing out how terrible it is?
 
It is not really about opinions. What you are arguing is that any film, no matter how fundamentally bad it is, has as much merit as any other film, because individuals can have different opinions. I am arguing that the film really lacks any plot or the basic minimum consistency required to maintain any suspension of disbelief. It is just a load of stuff chucked into a film. It doesn't hang together, it is not paced, and it is completely claustrophobic. It is one of the worst films I have ever seen, and it is certainly the worst film I have seen with that level of production and effects. I have no idea how that script got greenlighted, and I am baffled how the guy has got another three films. It was a criminally bad idea to give the director full control over the script.

What is happening to Star Wars at present is that it is being made into something very mediocre. Part of the reason the prequels were rejected so badly was because the audience expected something outstanding. They have now had close to 20 years of really poor Star Wars films and the film companies still get a decent return for it. All they want to do is tick the boxes so there is lots of action and a few toys to sell. They don't care whether the film is actually any good. The problem is, this is starting to bite them on the bum. The merchandise had been selling abysmally this time around, and someone the quality of the items has got even lower. I think that when episode 9 comes out (and the other spin-off has been released) there is going to be a real plummet in the value of the franchise. They have alienated all of us that were the first time around with the neutering of Luke Skywalker. There are a generation of kids in their late-teens and early 20s that missed the original films when they came out and don't even understand how it was tied in with the toys and in its diluted form just see Star Wars as another franchise alongside Pirates of the Caribbean and Harry Potter etc. Star Wars is not special to a lot of people any more, and a lot of people are sick of it.



But you are bothered even to have a go at us that are pointing out the weaknesses of the film? If you are happy with it and actually have no interest in the film, why have a go at us that are pointing out how terrible it is?
Can't be arsed to read the top bit. I'm just telling you I'm not going to get arsed over a fantasy film. I enjoyed it and I'm not going to over think it. You seem to be taking this very seriously though.
 
I think that when episode 9 comes out (and the other spin-off has been released) there is going to be a real plummet in the value of the franchise. They have alienated all of us that were the first time around with the neutering of Luke Skywalker. There are a generation of kids in their late-teens and early 20s that missed the original films when they came out
Who do people think are taking this new generation of kids to the cinema?

The adults who love Star Wars. Who are quickly falling out with it.
 
I can't see that working too well. After the Empire rose, Obi Wan went into exile but in a position where he could keep an eye on the growing Luke Skywalker. We know a fair bit of his youth and his death, I'm not sure there is much more story to tell without trying to squeeze a lot of continuity problems in.

Unless he gets word that someone is on the verge of discovering the young Skywalker and has to go and sort it.
 
The adults who love Star Wars. Who are quickly falling out with it.
The reverse to that are the kids who are quickly finding star wars and loving it, and the adults who's enjoyment of the film is in part enhanced by their kids enjoyment\enthusiasm?
 
It is not really about opinions. What you are arguing is that any film, no matter how fundamentally bad it is, has as much merit as any other film, because individuals can have different opinions. I am arguing that the film really lacks any plot or the basic minimum consistency required to maintain any suspension of disbelief. It is just a load of stuff chucked into a film. It doesn't hang together, it is not paced, and it is completely claustrophobic. It is one of the worst films I have ever seen, and it is certainly the worst film I have seen with that level of production and effects. I have no idea how that script got greenlighted, and I am baffled how the guy has got another three films. It was a criminally bad idea to give the director full control over the script.

What is happening to Star Wars at present is that it is being made into something very mediocre. Part of the reason the prequels were rejected so badly was because the audience expected something outstanding. They have now had close to 20 years of really poor Star Wars films and the film companies still get a decent return for it. All they want to do is tick the boxes so there is lots of action and a few toys to sell. They don't care whether the film is actually any good. The problem is, this is starting to bite them on the bum. The merchandise had been selling abysmally this time around, and someone the quality of the items has got even lower. I think that when episode 9 comes out (and the other spin-off has been released) there is going to be a real plummet in the value of the franchise. They have alienated all of us that were the first time around with the neutering of Luke Skywalker. There are a generation of kids in their late-teens and early 20s that missed the original films when they came out and don't even understand how it was tied in with the toys and in its diluted form just see Star Wars as another franchise alongside Pirates of the Caribbean and Harry Potter etc. Star Wars is not special to a lot of people any more, and a lot of people are sick of it.

Star Wars has been on a downward spiral since Empire. It's been a cash cow since Episode I and we can only hope has some gems in the future, more Rogue One.
 
Star Wars has been on a downward spiral since Empire. It's been a cash cow since Episode I and we can only hope has some gems in the future, more Rogue One.

I thought 'Rogue One' was a terrible mess, but nothing like as bad as 'The Last Jedi'. Disney have got exactly what they wanted, people clamouring for a treadmill of mediocrity. This is a company that has done everything they can to suppress originality and innovation and competition in the media, either by buying it out or simply crushing it. The last executive that had any interest in producing something that was actually good was Roy E. Disney, who made a lot of effort to stop the company becoming a soulless conglomerate before he died. But anyone can see what that company is now. Look at the headlining films that came out last year. They were pretty much universally terrible. With a little luck Disney will bite off more than it can chew and the industry will get a proper reboot and well lensed and written films might start getting made again.
 
I thought 'Rogue One' was a terrible mess, but nothing like as bad as 'The Last Jedi'. Disney have got exactly what they wanted, people clamouring for a treadmill of mediocrity. This is a company that has done everything they can to suppress originality and innovation and competition in the media, either by buying it out or simply crushing it. The last executive that had any interest in producing something that was actually good was Roy E. Disney, who made a lot of effort to stop the company becoming a soulless conglomerate before he died. But anyone can see what that company is now. Look at the headlining films that came out last year. They were pretty much universally terrible. With a little luck Disney will bite off more than it can chew and the industry will get a proper reboot and well lensed and written films might start getting made again.

I didn't mind Rogue One but I meant more that on the fringes of the franchise is the opportunity for better films.

Looking at the box office returns, Disney still seems to be making plenty though so I'm not expecting a sea-change just yet.
 
I didn't mind Rogue One but I meant more that on the fringes of the franchise is the opportunity for better films.

Looking at the box office returns, Disney still seems to be making plenty though so I'm not expecting a sea-change just yet.

The merchandise sales have supposedly been terrible this time around. I think episode 9 is going to be well down at the box office. I think a lot of people will, like me, be drawing the line at this load of rubbish. They really have sullied the characters. I can not believe they actually made a film that was worse than The Phantom Menace.
 
I think that when episode 9 comes out (and the other spin-off has been released) there is going to be a real plummet in the value of the franchise. They have alienated all of us that were the first time around with the neutering of Luke Skywalker.

No they haven’t. I was there at the pictures first time round. I still love Star Wars and I enjoyed this film.

To be honest, I always felt Luke was a bit of a whiny shit. I preferred to be Han Solo when we played. Luke was a lot cooler in this film.
 
No they haven’t. I was there at the pictures first time round. I still love Star Wars and I enjoyed this film.

To be honest, I always felt Luke was a bit of a whiny shit. I preferred to be Han Solo when we played. Luke was a lot cooler in this film.
Aye. And how awful that they've humanised someone. i.e. not infallible.
 
No they haven’t. I was there at the pictures first time round. I still love Star Wars and I enjoyed this film.

To be honest, I always felt Luke was a bit of a whiny shit. I preferred to be Han Solo when we played. Luke was a lot cooler in this film.

Well you would do. You have got one of those annoying space chickens as an avatar for starters...
 

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