The Summer rebuild.


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There's a watching the player bit inbetween.
You’d like to think so. Mind lee Johnson will be like this board (me included) with Scocco where we watched him score screamers on YouTube :lol:
I think that's what I suggested mate.
Aye I’m backing you up
IMHO, and I welcome any pellets!

It’s time to lose McGeady, Maguire, Leadbitter, McLaughlin, Wright even possibly Gooch and Burge.

Build our team around our future, that is Patterson, Younger, Hume, O’Nien, Neil, Diamond, Embleton hopefully with Sanderson back and a few more new experienced heads.


We could safely quadruple the wages of all of our kids from the salaries of just one or two of our senior (hopefully departing) players, now out of contract.

It’s time for them to go.

Invest in our own future and let’s not waste any more youth team investment as we have recently wit the likes of Greenwood and Maja.

Move on and develop. The loan market is also so important as not only Lincoln have proved.

Imagine where we would have been without Dion Sanderson? Mid table!
Mate you do realise O’Nien is 26 and Gooch is 25 :lol:
 
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Those who think the club are changing how they do things and those that think LJ deserves more time seem to be basing their suppositions on starting next season with a high press, younger and more athletic team with pace and energy. I don't think any fan would disagree with this aim but just how realistic is it?

From the snippets we've been fed there's a suggestion that the wage budget will be lower. There was also the statement by Johnson that there are players the club want to retain but can't afford to. If most clubs are using the data driven approach why would we get better results than them looking at the same data. In my opinion next season will see L1 stronger than any of our seasons down here. I'd expect Sheff Wed to mount a strong promotion push, Rotherham seem to be too good for L1 but not quite good enough for the Championship. Throw in Pompey, Ipswich, Charlton and the loser of the play off final and the top two places may take some achieving.

Question for those not as sceptical as I am but what makes you convinced that we can put a league winning team together from scratch with a reduced wage budget.

Re the other teams: this season was an absolute gift to us. Everyone was relatively shite. This should have been the easiest season to win promotion since we went down.

Agree next season we are going to struggle. Remaining quality will be gone and I expect big challenges from everyone going down and from a renewed Charlton and Portsmouth.
Can see us ending in 7th/8th
You’d like to think so. Mind lee Johnson will be like this board (me included) with Scocco where we watched him score screamers on YouTube :lol:

Aye I’m backing you up

Mate you do realise O’Nien is 26 and Gooch is 25 :lol:

f***ing hell fact of the day! I didn't know that
 
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But.... that's not right?

You keep saying that but Speakman suggested it was.

Speakman, the club’s sporting director, is already working hard on potential targets but despite the efforts of the recruitment team he has insisted that it’s the head coach who will dictate who arrives at the club, and who doesn’t
 
You keep saying that but Speakman suggested it was.

Speakman, the club’s sporting director, is already working hard on potential targets but despite the efforts of the recruitment team he has insisted that it’s the head coach who will dictate who arrives at the club, and who doesn’t


He has the final say, he doesnt go out and target players that he wants, he is presented with players and he can say yes or no
 
If Blackpool fail to go up I think Yates would be a good acquisition. Unfortunately Blackpool hold all the cards....hes contracted to 2023 with the club having a further years option. They'd fleece us if we went for him.
SKP suggested we were gonna offer 2m whatever. Though perhaps he is saying a wee bit too much in the media this year. Obe thing is for sure, if Yates went round the Lincoln keeper a la Wyke, he scores with his left foot no problem.
 
You keep saying that but Speakman suggested it was.

Speakman, the club’s sporting director, is already working hard on potential targets but despite the efforts of the recruitment team he has insisted that it’s the head coach who will dictate who arrives at the club, and who doesn’t

Have you listened to the podcast Alf, or taken on board what I said about context?

You have just said the data provides a list and LJ picks one from it. That's categorically not how it works. That would be insanity unless I'm badly misinterpreting what you mean.
 
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Have you listened to the podcast Alf, or taken on board what I said about context?

You have just said the data provides a list and LJ picks one from it. That's categorically not how it works. That would be insanity unless I'm badly misinterpreting what you mean.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm saying Johnson has the ultimate say as to whether the club go for a player or not. I don't know if it will be a list they work through or one player presented as an option at a time.
 
remember though the club has been runing at huge lossesthis year because of the pandemicand the owner (s) will be putting the cash in to cover that, meaning there wont bemuchsccope to put more in for wages...as i think ownersare only allowed to put 9 million a season in or something like that
Yep agree but for someone like me who has been banging on since Feb about a reset clearout its good news.We must clear as much of the present wage bill to give us room to bring players in.
 
As I said on an earlier post marra I can understand that approach when mistakes can cost you multi millions but when your market is 100 out of contract journeymen surely it would take half a dozen blokes with a few pizzas and a dvd player about 2 days to discuss and analyse them. If its kids from Europe or further afield then indeed you will need full data analysis but haway what can data tell you about Charlie Wyke that watching him a few times wouldn't. You know he's slow, you know he's not a target man and can't really play with his back to goal and you know that if you don't get crosses in he's largely ineffective....and most of those on that "selling platers" list are similarly exposed.

Data doesn't just tell you if a player is a target man, has a good first touch etc etc.

It maps everything a player does. Every touch they make, in what position they received the ball, movements they make that gains them space, movements they make in particular types of build ups, movements they make from various trigger points, where they make passes in various situations.

It can then match that data to players all across Europe to find a player that has the same or similar nuances in their game. From that you can find the exact player you need - either one that is missing from the system, or after youve just flogged your star striker for 20 mill, you can find another then fits in seamlessly for a few quid and you do it again.

It's not just game data either. It's training data that be used to assess the players you have and allow you to restructure ways in playing and tactics that helps those players consistently find those areas they all individually excel (for want of a better word) in.

Of course it's easier said than done, and we will still make poor signings but it's impossible for a human mind to take in that much information over 90 mins let alone process it all, compare each tiny aspect of every second over the course of the season, and then compare it to thousands of other players.

Still need a gadgy at the top who knows what hes doing, what he's looking for and how to implement it or it's a wasted resource. Realistically we don't know if we have that yet.
 
There was a list of all L1 players out of contract. When I’ve seen Graham of Gillingham, he appears to have it is own way in the final third. A forceful player who can score, has pace and strength.

Gills fans believe he is destined for the Championship. This is the kind of player we need . Fraser at MK Dons must have his price . Yates at Blackpool is on £1500 a week.

Blackpool have high pressed against lesser sides and sat in to play on the counter vs the likes of us. We have to be adaptable too.
I agree with you on multiple things.

Graham, Fraser and Yates would be a PERFECT first 3 signings.

as you said - we have to be adaptable - we have to have a plan B. I’d love to see us sit in tight and play counter attack when necessary.
 
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm saying Johnson has the ultimate say as to whether the club go for a player or not. I don't know if it will be a list they work through or one player presented as an option at a time.

Ok mate but im sure that's what this says

Johnsafc said:
I’ve also read this article. To me it sounded like the data brings him a list of players and he picks who he wants
I think that's what I suggested mate.

Either way, ill leave it for a bit as I'm sick of myself prattling on.

Give the podcast a listen if you have a chance.
 
Data doesn't just tell you if a player is a target man, has a good first touch etc etc.

It maps everything a player does. Every touch they make, in what position they received the ball, movements they make that gains them space, movements they make in particular types of build ups, movements they make from various trigger points, where they make passes in various situations.

It can then match that data to players all across Europe to find a player that has the same or similar nuances in their game. From that you can find the exact player you need - either one that is missing from the system, or after youve just flogged your star striker for 20 mill, you can find another then fits in seamlessly for a few quid and you do it again.

It's not just game data either. It's training data that be used to assess the players you have and allow you to restructure ways in playing and tactics that helps those players consistently find those areas they all individually excel (for want of a better word) in.

Of course it's easier said than done, and we will still make poor signings but it's impossible for a human mind to take in that much information over 90 mins let alone process it all, compare each tiny aspect of every second over the course of the season, and then compare it to thousands of other players.

Still need a gadgy at the top who knows what hes doing, what he's looking for and how to implement it or it's a wasted resource. Realistically we don't know if we have that yet.

As I've said many times I'm happy to endorse that type of system as long as its all inclusive, ie includes players already under contract and doesn't just look at those out of contract. I want players like Ollie Watkins and Ivan Toney identifying and backed up with a system that's prepared to get clubs to sell those players.
 
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm saying Johnson has the ultimate say as to whether the club go for a player or not. I don't know if it will be a list they work through or one player presented as an option at a time.

I'd be very surprised if it was one at a time. More likely they will have already agreed between them what they are looking for an options would be presented based on that. I doubt we will be signing players behind Johnson's back but at the same time I can't see him signing players over the head of Speakman. Ultimately Johnson has the power to say no to all of them and back to the drawing board but if they've done their research there shouldn't be a need for a veto because the players should (in theory) be the perfect fit for the brief.

If we were to sack Johnson and bring in another manager it may well be the case that the new manager is presented with the exact same players although I'd expect variances in the overall playing style from coach to coach (just huge differences).
 
Huge rebuild needed wouldnt know where to start , need someone who can realise half of these players arnt good enough for starters cos the last 3 managers seem
To think they where good enough, massive task ahead before we are ready for promotion a feel their will be alot more downs before we are flying again
 
Ok mate but im sure that's what this says



Either way, ill leave it for a bit as I'm sick of myself prattling on.

Give the podcast a listen if you have a chance.

Fair enough mate, I've said it. Been a busy thread and I'm replying to lots of people so may not have been entirely clear. My understanding has always been that the recruitment team identify the player and Johnson says yes or no. Obviously there will be backups so essentially a list although as you say its not a list Johnson looks at in its entirety and picks who he likes. 👍
If we were to sack Johnson and bring in another manager it may well be the case that the new manager is presented with the exact same players although I'd expect variances in the overall playing style from coach to coach (just huge differences).

Fully agree and that's my main issue with Johnson..... Is he a good enough coach as he won't be the one identifying the players.
 
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