The Nazis

Discussion in 'SMB' started by Dave Herbal, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. 0verlord44

    0verlord44 Goalkeeper

    Theres so many tiny 'what if' moments in the 20th century.
    We were taught very little about the world wars at school. More about the bolsheviks, and nothing about the cold war or the space race!
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  2. Johnap

    Johnap Midfield Contributor

    Quite right. Extremes of ideologies are dangerous.
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  3. Aituk7

    Aituk7 Winger

    The close calls with nuclear weapons have been unbelievable.

    List of nuclear close calls - Wikipedia

    Communism is, I don't think socialism per se is... socialism means an awful lot of different things, similar to capitalism.

    The rise of the far left is at times arguably more dangerous... because people have no problem calling out nazi's for their nonsense but often struggle with equally violent left wing phenomena
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  4. Lord Potts

    Lord Potts Winger

    Provoking a war against the USA and opening a second front against the USSR weren't great moves. As a competent military strategist would have probably advised against any of this in the first place it's arguable that the Nazi's would not have a war to fight in the first place.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  5. Scotty

    Scotty Winger

    a german (over-engineered) t-34 is just a panther - the germans just would'nt or could'nt help themselves - they'll over-enginner the shit out of the t-34

    1. Sealion is never happening without a major change in priorities, and if you concentrate on the naval requirements to Sealion you will lack the resources to take out France - and without a Sealion you'll never get GB to agree to a peace settlement that turns it into a vassal state of Germany. And Barbarossa start date was linked to the drying out of the spring mud, you might bring it forward by a couple of weeks if you ignore Yugoslavia but not enough to really change of the outcome in 41

    2. as i mentioned earlier in the thread - good luck with that. The germans had to pillage to feed their own troops and now you want to conscript all these volunteers that you cant feed. At best you can use them as meatshields but I'm not sure OKW would be comfortable arming thousands of possible turncoats

    3. this one i do agree with - go to a war footing straight away. Concentrate on equipment types and dont spread yourself thin with multiple designs (ie panzer iv should be your aim, use it for all the armoured roles and ignore the panther, tiger, etc)

    although i'm not how much more motorised the germans could go when they were constrained by oil supplies
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  6. Baby Give It Up

    Baby Give It Up Midfield

    If Hitler had kept it to one front we would have been screwed tbh. Because he decided to go East after Dunkirk it gave us a chance to recover and get some aid off the yanks.
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  7. peil

    peil Striker Contributor

    If Adolf hadn't been champing at the bit and had held off till 41/42 like the General staff were planning then there's a good chance they could have held everything between the channel and the Urals.
    An airforce with no strategic assets, only tactical bombers, was always going to have problems as the war wore on.
    The lack of naval power in 39 meant they could be fairly easily cut off from overseas supplies - albeit they learned a lot from WW1 and almost crippled us.

    His biggest mistakes were a) allowing himself to divert men and resources to Greece after the Italians buggered that up, delaying the Russian offensive and b) declaring war on the US after Pearl Harbor.

    The second one is probably the most telling, as there was a strong desire to leave the Germans alone and stick to the Japanese - even after his declaration.
  8. Scotty

    Scotty Winger

    he would have ran out of all his stolen gold if he'd waited til 42 - read Tooze's 'Wages of Destruction' for more details

    agreed on the tac/strategic air - however if he switches priorities does he have enough tac air to get the job done in the west


    it was'nt the italians in Greece that buggered him up - it was the Yugoslavians flipping immediately after the Pact of Steel has been signed - although the delay was only a month, and the spring mud had'nt dried anyway, nor were his allies really ready for the May start

    whether he declared on the US or not was pretty much immaterial by then, they were in an undeclared war with the US from early 41 anyway - with the US having a shoot on sight policy. And you can only funnel so much extra manpower/equipment to the Pacific anyway due to shipping capacity, etc so even with a Japan first the UK is still going to get a load of help
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  9. Good Bloke Fairly

    Good Bloke Fairly Goalkeeper

    The whole Enigma program aspect of the Battle of Britain is fascinating. Allowing them to level Coventry so they wouldn't know we'd cracked their code.
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  10. Aituk7

    Aituk7 Winger

    That's the excuse I would have given as well :rolleyes:
  11. Az*

    Az* Striker

    I love the Panther but you’re correct. P4 F2 onwards were more than enough. Could have even designated the Panther as a heavy later on, it’s frontal armour and gun were more than enough for most things it faced.
    P4, Stugs and the Hetzer would have been the best choice for AFV’s imo. Hetzer was unbelievably cheap and powerful and had a tiny profile, punches well above its weight.

    Instead time, money and valuable resources were wasted on KT’s, JagD tigers/panthers, Elephants and god knows what other ridiculous shit(Brumbar? Ffs) Some are iconic and were extremely powerful, but ultimately, were a waste.

    The P3 and P4 were the work horses of the Wehrmacht but are rarely talked about because of the Tiger etc.

    The Russians knew the score, nearly every tank using the same hull design and wide tracks. Still the best all round tank in ww2 for me was the T34, so simple yet so effective.
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  12. Good Bloke Fairly

    Good Bloke Fairly Goalkeeper

    If you are seriously suggesting the Nazis were left wing you need your head looking at.
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  13. Richy Fingers

    Richy Fingers Full Back

    Not at all, but they were Socialists.
  14. Arkle

    Arkle Striker Contributor

  15. Richy Fingers

    Richy Fingers Full Back

    As I said, extremes are dangerous. A perfectly reasonable ideology can soon turn dangerous when taken to the extreme.

    Hitler wasn't "evil", he thought he was saving the world.
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  16. Two million voices

    Two million voices Central Defender

    No they weren’t.
  17. Arkle

    Arkle Striker Contributor

    That's not my point. My point is that the Nazis weren't socialist, although they used the word socialist in their name, in the same way that North Korea isn't a democracy, even though it calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
  18. Richy Fingers

    Richy Fingers Full Back

    "The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism, and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the "common good", accepting political interests as the main priority of economic organization"

    Nazism - Wikipedia

    It might not fit your definition of Socialism, but they fell for it hook, line and sinker.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. Arkle

    Arkle Striker Contributor

    So, a redefinition of "socialism" ergo not socialism in its original form.

    Were the Nazis Socialists?
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  20. Richy Fingers

    Richy Fingers Full Back

    So you admit it's Socialism just not the Socialism you ascribe to.

    Well I'm glad we sorted that out. Phew.

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