The Nazis



Richy Fingers said:
Nah. The Russians overwhelmed them.

Just think, only half a million Brits died during WW2, where as 27 million Russians died. 11 million of those were soldiers.

We and the US like to think we won the war but really it was the Russians literally throwing themselves at bullets. Without them attacking from the East, Germany would have steamrollered Europe.
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But would sensible military strategists have opened the eastern front in the first place?
 
riffraff said:
It sounds interesting but is awful. Like a 13 yr old Jeffrey Archer writing a historical thriller marra. Clunky as owt. He has good ideas for books but should franchise them out to someone who can string words together properly. James Patterson has been doing that for decades.
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Oh well, another one to dump in a charity shop or such.:)
 
knarfw said:
If they had proper military strategists instead of Nazis they wouldn’t have started a war in the first place.
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I think this was my point. Goering was just a pilot who knew nothing about strategy; Himmler was the kid who got bullied at school, and Goebbels was a bloody journalist.
Hitler was asked to replace Goering with someone competent and refused, saying the party wouldn’t allow it.
 
RossTheNinja said:
Yes .Very easily. We got battered at first in the air but Germany decided to give us time to build new planes

Kill Hitler

Stay friendly with Russia.

Don't waste precious resources on a genocide

Kill Hitler

Build nukes

Kill ourselves (potentially)
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Tidied. :confused:
 
knarfw said:
If they had proper military strategists instead of Nazis they wouldn’t have started a war in the first place.
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They were after ‘living room’ but by 1938 they already had annexed the Sudetenland and joined with Austria.

In theory the Nazis could have left Poland alone to avoid war with us?

Did we have any pacts with Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, France etc.? They could have invaded those countries instead of Poland if we only guaranteed polish neutrality.

I know that we had a deal with Belgium in WW1 but unsure about 1939.

Ultimately the purpose of nazism was to destroy Jews, communists etc. so it was inevitable that they’d attack the east.

Kevj said:
And Rockefeller.
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JonMc said:
Keeping the silliness that is Brexit out of this...Len Deighton's SS-GB might up your street. The BBC dramatized it last year. Not bad.
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You might want to read "Fatherland" by Richard Harris. Basically, three things had gone the Nazis way in the war.

1) The Americans decided only to fight the Japanese.

2) Hitler had gone after the Casucus oilfields rather than Stalingrad, starving the Soviet war machine of oil.

3) Because America didn't enter the Europen conflict, Hitler was finally able to force the UK to the negotiating table.

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A further note is the assasination of Heydrich, Hitler's likely successor, had not occurred in Prague in 1942.

You thus had a German-dominated Europe with the Cold War between USA and Germany instead though the Russians still continued the war from east of the Urals.

The general feel is of an unsustainable situation, with Germany seeking an accommodation with America so the latter withdraws its support of the remnant Soviet government.

Modern culture is also leaking in with multiple Beatles references, so it's only a matter of time before the ageing Nazi leadership is an irrelevance to younger people.

The balance is tipped by a file detailing the activities of the Einsatzgruppe and their extermination of the Jews. This is leaked out via Switzerland at the end, leaving the accommodation with Uncle Sam extremely unlikely.

There is a parody in the book at least of the European Union as an umbrella organisation of Nazi control of Europe, which made me laugh and Keith Harris does refer to the blue flag with a ring of 12 gold stars.

Has this been achieved in peace? Given Germany has behaved as a democracy since, it is perhaps a sizeablr stretch of the imagination that the EU is Nazi plan B. That said, if youve watched Hunting Hitler...

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The Rutger Hauer film does change some details, notably the Americans withdrew from the European Theatre after a failed D-Day (Hitler had not been in a bad temper on June 6th 1944 and ordered the Luftwaffe airbourne) and the Einsatzgruppe file had been dumped into President Joe Kennedy's car as he visited Berlin in the early 60s to visit Hitler (the visit was yet to occur in the book).

It's still a feasible insight into what might have happened.

It's certainly more feasible than "The Man in the High Castle", which I just could not get away with.
 
yyy said:
You might want to read "Fatherland" by Richard Harris. Basically, three things had gone the Nazis way in the war.

1) The Americans decided only to fight the Japanese.

2) Hitler had gone after the Casucus oilfields rather than Stalingrad, starving the Soviet war machine of oil.

3) Because America didn't enter the Europen conflict, Hitler was finally able to force the UK to the negotiating table.

--------

A further note is the assasination of Heydrich, Hitler's likely successor, had not occurred in Prague in 1942.

You thus had a German-dominated Europe with the Cold War between USA and Germany instead though the Russians still continued the war from east of the Urals.

The general feel is of an unsustainable situation, with Germany seeking an accommodation with America so the latter withdraws its support of the remnant Soviet government.

Modern culture is also leaking in with multiple Beatles references, so it's only a matter of time before the ageing Nazi leadership is an irrelevance to younger people.

The balance is tipped by a file detailing the activities of the Einsatzgruppe and their extermination of the Jews. This is leaked out via Switzerland at the end, leaving the accommodation with Uncle Sam extremely unlikely.

There is a parody in the book at least of the European Union as an umbrella organisation of Nazi control of Europe, which made me laugh and Keith Harris and Orville does refer to the blue flag with a ring of 12 gold stars.

Has this been achieved in peace? Given Germany has behaved as a democracy since, it is perhaps a sizeablr stretch of the imagination that the EU is Nazi plan B. That said, if youve watched Hunting Hitler...

--------
The Rutger Hauer film does change some details, notably the Americans withdrew from the European Theatre after a failed D-Day (Hitler had not been in a bad temper on June 6th 1944 and ordered the Luftwaffe airbourne) and the Einsatzgruppe file had been dumped into President Joe Kennedy's car as he visited Berlin in the early 60s to visit Hitler (the visit was yet to occur in the book).

It's still a feasible insight into what might have happened.

It's certainly more feasible than "The Man in the High Castle", which I just could not get away with.
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Tidied.
 
At the time they were acknowledged as far superior as individual soldiers. Decisions further up did for them. Reckless ambition and a refusal to withdraw when outnumbered.
 
I always wondered why Hitler didn’t finish us off before attacking Russia.

Seems mad to believe you could conquer a country of that size.


If you have a spare couple of hours give this a watch, probably one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen.
 
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phillips10 said:
I always wondered why Hitler didn’t finish us off before attacking Russia.

Seems mad to believe you could conquer a country of that size.


If you have a spare couple of hours give this a watch, probably one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen.
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Because they absolutely hated the Russians.
 

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