The Laughing Stock of World Cricket (AGAIN)



smoker said:
Stuart Broad, Joe Root (from 15), Rory Burns, Jos Butter, Jonny Bairstow and Keaton Jennings.

I don't think this is proof of any sort of nepotism though, just the poor status of cricket in state schools.
Click to expand...
Maybe it shows the schooling cricketers get in clubs, county teams and schools isn't good enough, for batting - while public schools have the kids for more time and are able to school them better - maybe batting is a more difficult skill to pick up and requires the extra time?

And haven't Durham over the past few years had bowling coaches but no batting coach? That seems unbalanced.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Thank god for a bit of perspective, you think we had the worst side in the world reading this thread.



Most of that is down to the cupboard of top class batsman been very very small, not sure Baylis should be blamed for that mind.



He is absolutely shoe in, and correctly so in that side,easily worth his place!

Another fucker thrown in too high in the order, along with many many others, just to keep our best batsman just one place lower ,and why?

To suit the team? No because our best batsman prefers 4, and rather than tell him to bat just one place higher, let’s chuck every fucker else there and see them fail time and time again to suit one batsman, and I thought cricket was supposed to be a team game!
Click to expand...
The ECB are to blame for that marginalising the county cricket in pursuit of white ball revenue.

But in regards to Bayliss. There's far too many attacking batsman given a licence to play that way at any costs. I've seen zero evidence of how he's improved any of them as test batsman.

The averages of Root,Bairstow,Stokes and Moeen are getting worse and worse. These are players more than capable at international level who seem unable to bat out time or even build sensible innings at the minute. Bravo a player who has been sidelined for the past few years showed more grit than those guys have doe for the vast majority of bayliss time in charge.

Dobell nails it for me in that article. Worded it in a way I probably couldn't do myself
 
mackembhoy said:
The ECB are to blame for that marginalising the county cricket in pursuit of white ball revenue.

But in regards to Bayliss. There's far too many attacking batsman given a licence to play that way at any costs. I've seen zero evidence of how he's improved any of them as test batsman.

The averages of Root,Bairstow,Stokes and Moeen are getting worse and worse. These are players more than capable at international level who seem unable to bat out time or even build sensible innings at the minute. Bravo a player who has been sidelined for the past few years showed more grit than those guys have doe for the vast majority of bayliss time in charge.

Dobell nails it for me in that article. Worded it in a way I probably couldn't do myself
Click to expand...

I think the players you mentioned need to take responsibility for their own resilience and grit and need to step up to the plate rather than blaming the coach all the time.

As for your first point the whole cricketing world (all countries) in the last 10 years has put more emphasis on white ball cricket, that is. not exclusive to the ECB, more to the changing face of cricket.

Cricket moves in cycles and at the moment the cupboard is bare with top order batsman.

It’s not always the ECB or the ciaches fault for everything despite what some say.

Since the ECB did the dirty on Durhan they blamed for every single thing that goes wrong, unfairly at times imo.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I think the players you mentioned need to take responsibility for their own resilience and grit and need to step up to the plate rather than blaming the coach all the time.

As for your first point the whole cricketing world (all countries) in the last 10 years has put more emphasis on white ball cricket, that is. not exclusive to the ECB, more to the changing face of cricket.

Cricket moves in cycles and at the moment the cupboard is bare with top order batsman.

It’s not always the ECB or the ciaches fault for everything despite what some say.

Since the ECB did the dirty on Durhan they blamed for every single thing that goes wrong, unfairly at times imo.
Click to expand...
To be fair though, this is the ECBs fault - and I can't be accused of having an axe to grind!

Whilst you're playing the bulk of your four-day cricket in spring and autumn, you're never going to bring through opening batsmen - they don't spend long enough at the crease, and it's the whole "always a ball with my name on it" mentality; you won't develop genuine pace bowlers, because 80mph with a little movement skittles sides; and you won't develop world class spinners, because who wants to bowl slow off breaks on a green top?

This is solely down to the ECB imo
 
chunkylover53 said:
Bairstow has been out bowled 29 times in tests.

And yet people think he is top class :lol:
Click to expand...

England have three top class test cricketers (Anderson, Root & Stokes), a collection of some very good test cricketers (Broad, Bairstow & Moen amongst others) then some others like Rashid & Jennings who are neither one nor the other as things stand.
 
TheRey said:
To be fair though, this is the ECBs fault - and I can't be accused of having an axe to grind!

Whilst you're playing the bulk of your four-day cricket in spring and autumn, you're never going to bring through opening batsmen - they don't spend long enough at the crease, and it's the whole "always a ball with my name on it" mentality; you won't develop genuine pace bowlers, because 80mph with a little movement skittles sides; and you won't develop world class spinners, because who wants to bowl slow off breaks on a green top?

This is solely down to the ECB imo
Click to expand...

We all of course that is a valid point, we have just been beaten by the country who have focussed on white ball, and have they best players playing white ball, more than any other country in the last 10 years.

So excuses don’t wash.
 
Voice of fair play said:
We all of course that is a valid point, we have just been beaten by the country who have focussed on white ball, and have they best players playing white ball, more than any other country in the last 10 years.

So excuses don’t wash.
Click to expand...
If those white ball players had been playing then I would agree, but the xi that played the two Tests had little white ball experience so less likely to give their wickets away to one day shots like our lot. They really are two different teams, the WI red and white ball sides. In fact it's not even as clear cut as that as most of the mercenaries don't play 50 over stuff either
 
Silly Point said:
If those white ball players had been playing then I would agree, but the xi that played the two Tests had little white ball experience so less likely to give their wickets away to one day shots like our lot. They really are two different teams, the WI red and white ball sides. In fact it's not even as clear cut as that as most of the mercenaries don't play 50 over stuff either
Click to expand...

Yes, the point I am trying to make is the West Indies above all other countries has prioritised one day cricket, hence having a much smaller pot to pick from, yet still beat us.

Therefore we are just making excuses and blaming the coach and the ECB, when it is clear our players should be capable of adapting their game.
 
They are all clearly very talented players, I just think they are just a bit weak. Looking back at successful sides we had Trott/Bell/Vaughan/Colly/KP who were as brave as they come against the quicks. All would adjust their game according to the situation, and stick their chests out when the bowlers were getting on top.

This lot I think may just be a bit pampered. Yes they have all the shots, but when the going gets tough they only seem to have the option of bashing their way out of it. Butler's first innings was embarrassing. After seeing the Root delivery he didn't want to know. Bairstow showed a bit in that first session, but after lunch played a brainless shot. Stokes doesn't seem to know which end to hold, he is probably 2 spots too high. They make on that Ali is great because he admits when he has been crap. I'd rather he worked out how to put that right than just accept it.

The problem is we don't really have any other options jumping off the page. I'd probably look at youth and just let them have a run. When you are being bowled out for less than 200 pretty much every innings, it can't get much worse. May aswell try and unearth someone.
 
Carteron said:
They are all clearly very talented players, I just think they are just a bit weak. Looking back at successful sides we had Trott/Bell/Vaughan/Colly/KP who were as brave as they come against the quicks. All would adjust their game according to the situation, and stick their chests out when the bowlers were getting on top.

This lot I think may just be a bit pampered. Yes they have all the shots, but when the going gets tough they only seem to have the option of bashing their way out of it. Butler's first innings was embarrassing. After seeing the Root delivery he didn't want to know. Bairstow showed a bit in that first session, but after lunch played a brainless shot. Stokes doesn't seem to know which end to hold, he is probably 2 spots too high. They make on that Ali is great because he admits when he has been crap. I'd rather he worked out how to put that right than just accept it.

The problem is we don't really have any other options jumping off the page. I'd probably look at youth and just let them have a run. When you are being bowled out for less than 200 pretty much every innings, it can't get much worse. May aswell try and unearth someone.
Click to expand...
"Having all the shots" is not a problem. It's all not necessarily a good thing - see Cook who limited himself to the shots he had confidence in.

Bayliss said in the press today or yesterday that England have 6/7 players who can play at nos 6/7. That's the problem. They're all good, down the order but there's a real dearth of top order and that means nonsense decisions of playing Denly as an opener and Bairstow at number 3.
 
One straightforward thing the top six, should be capable of, is presenting the full face of the bat and stop getting bowled clean or off inside edges

Play straight, get in, then unfurl the odi shots, when you’ve made 40 plus
 

Back
Top