The importance of pubs

[Nukehasslefan]

It’s the cost. Nothing else for me. Far too expensive to go out every week

It is a major factor for a lot I'd say.
Here's something to think about.
A gallon of petrol is around £6. This apparently takes a huge drilling platform dragged out to sea and a very deep bore to extract the oil to refine into petrol.
Beer is brewed at a brewery with ready to hand materials and we are charged around £25 a gallon for it.

Doesn't make any real sense, does it?

 

[Deleted member 40035]

It is a major factor for a lot I'd say.
Here's something to think about.
A gallon of petrol is around £6. This apparently takes a huge drilling platform dragged out to sea and a very deep bore to extract the oil to refine into petrol.
Beer is brewed at a brewery with ready to hand materials and we are charged around £25 a gallon for it.

Doesn't make any real sense, does it?

Nice things to think about for a moment but that makes me more angry.

 

[Ciro_DiMarzio]

Pubs died with the smoking ban.

It did have an impact. I was about 21 when the smoking ban kicked in so only had a few years of going in smokey pubs and clubs but if they reversed the ban I would never go in a pub again.

It is a major factor for a lot I'd say.
Here's something to think about.
A gallon of petrol is around £6. This apparently takes a huge drilling platform dragged out to sea and a very deep bore to extract the oil to refine into petrol.
Beer is brewed at a brewery with ready to hand materials and we are charged around £25 a gallon for it.

Doesn't make any real sense, does it?

I always think the same about Coca Cola. A 2 litre bottle of coke is over 2 quid now so the proice of a litre of coke isn't much less than a litre of petrol. Mental really.

Talking to my dad about this a few weeks ago, and he said that in the 1970s it cost as much to buy booze in the off license than it did in the pub. Increasing the cost of drink in supermarkets would therefor make sense, social drinking is undoubtably better for you than drinking alone.

Hear a lot of talk about the snowflake generation being more health conscious, but walk down any town/city centre of a weekend and its the young ones getting hammered. Probably paying twice as much for the privilege than they would at their local

Adding tax on to the supermarket beer while lowering it on the pub beer would make sense. If 4 cans cost the best part of a tenner and an average pint was under 3 quid again it would make the pub more appealing to alot of people.

 

[dangermows]

Shouldn’t you be supporting your local boozers?

No need. The Riviera is absolutely booming.

 

[rokerexile]

On the news this morning that the government are looking at substantial reforms to keep them open as they 'play a vital role' in society.

Half of regular slurpers made at least one new friend during a visit, according to studies. Those with a pub close by are also said to be happier, more trusting and better connected to their community.

A cut in beer tax in the next budget perhaps, and a reduction in business rates.

Haway the pubs.

Apart from going to the match, the only thing I miss about living abroad. Nothing comes close.

 

[Reptilia]

Smoking ban kicked off the decline although it would be beyond weird if they unbanned it!

I smoke when I’ve had a drink and the smoking ban is the best thing they’ve ever done. f***ing hate it when you’re abroad and bars still allow you to smoke indoors.

 

[Redandwhitedust]

It is a major factor for a lot I'd say.
Here's something to think about.
A gallon of petrol is around £6. This apparently takes a huge drilling platform dragged out to sea and a very deep bore to extract the oil to refine into petrol.
Beer is brewed at a brewery with ready to hand materials and we are charged around £25 a gallon for it.

Doesn't make any real sense, does it?

Still makes more sense than paying over a quid for a bottle of water!

 

[Nukehasslefan]

Still makes more sense than paying over a quid for a bottle of water!

Aye, it does.

 

[ozz]

Obviously price is important but that argument goes out the window when Costa is charging £3 a cup of coffee and is packed and the pub next door is empty. You couldn’t give me a pub for free as it’s too much hard work for a little return.

 

[Kevj]

It is a major factor for a lot I'd say.
Here's something to think about.
A gallon of petrol is around £6. This apparently takes a huge drilling platform dragged out to sea and a very deep bore to extract the oil to refine into petrol.
Beer is brewed at a brewery with ready to hand materials and we are charged around £25 a gallon for it.

Doesn't make any real sense, does it?

Very good post.

Do the same calculations for a pint of milk or a cup of coffee to see the relative cost of everyday consumables.

What does skew the argument is that despite huge taxes on oil derivatives, the market is truly global and oil price suffers massively from competition, specifically when OPEC and the western world play off against each other.

And for all of those saying that the price of a pint should be lowered or taxes cut to incentivise pub trade, take another look. Look at how smoking is now the new evil and this culture change has happened within one generation based mainly on a decision to ban smoking from pubs. Now look at the NHS for alcohol related costs and consider if the government will ever reduce taxes in order to promote this pass time?

Sorry, I’m a big fan of a traditional pub, but I can’t see there being any help from the government to support trade by reducing the cost of a pint.

 

[Redandwhitedust]

Very good post.

Do the same calculations for a pint of milk or a cup of coffee to see the relative cost of everyday consumables.

What does skew the argument is that despite huge taxes on oil derivatives, the market is truest global and oil price suffers massively from competition, specifically when OPEC and the western world play off against each other.

And for all of those saying that the price of a pint should be lowered or taxes cut to incentivise pub trade, take another look. Look at how smoking is now the new evil and this culture change has happened within one generation based mainly on a decision to ban smoking from pubs. Now look at the NHS for alcohol related costs and consider if the government will ever reduce taxes in order to promote this pass time?

Sorry, I’m a big fan of a traditional pub, but I can’t see there being any help from the government to support trade by reducing the cost of a pint.

Maybe not to reduce the cost of a pint, but perhaps to keep the cost of a pint to current levels and stop it rising would help keep pubs open, except it goes back to the original problem. How do you help the individual pubs and landlords/tenants without handing huge cuts to the likes of Wetherspoons and Enterprise Inns who are closing them down while making profit along the way.

 

[Nukehasslefan]

Obviously price is important but that argument goes out the window when Costa is charging £3 a cup of coffee and is packed and the pub next door is empty. You couldn’t give me a pub for free as it’s too much hard work for a little return.

The thing is though, generally a cup of coffee is a once a day job for many or even a once every few days or even once a week.
A night out is a continuation of paying for drinks that are a very quick drain on the pocket.

 

[dangermows]

People keep going on about a night out when in reality we are talking about blokes going out for three or four pints, which would keep pubs ticking over canny. That used to be the crack most days during the week, they had jobs to go to the next day so weren't getting cockeyed.

 

[Kevj]

Maybe not to reduce the cost of a pint, but perhaps to keep the cost of a pint to current levels and stop it rising would help keep pubs open, except it goes back to the original problem. How do you help the individual pubs and landlords/tenants without handing huge cuts to the likes of Wetherspoons and Enterprise Inns who are closing them down while making profit along the way.

You simply can’t. You can’t expect a landlord to trade without a profit, okay maybe factor in a salary then a marginal profit, but certainly not at a loss or without personal income.

Then when you look at any pubco, these are businesses too with targets and hungry executives. Unless the change means the government will change everyone to a not for profit charity, then they will always seek to maximise revenues and minimise costs. It’s the nature of a capitalist society.

 

[Lambchops]

People keep going on about a night out when in reality we are talking about blokes going out for three or four pints, which would keep pubs ticking over canny. That used to be the crack most days during the week, they had jobs to go to the next day so weren't getting cockeyed.

Very much the way of life here, bars rammed from 5-9 with lads and lasses out for a few after work midweek then it quietens off

 

[riffraff]

I can truthfully say that I’m doing my utmost to keep pubs going, one of life’s simple pleasures.

Good lad.

The decline of the pub is basically a combination of all of the reasons mentioned in the posts above. Plus this imho:
Around the time of the smoking ban though I nivver smoked and was ower the moon it came in I was pissed me off about it I was pissed off about it because as a non smoker I’d be in the company of two or three who’d all go outside for a tab and carry on the conversation out there. When they’d come back the subject matter had changed ffs. 18 months of having only half the crack on a neet out played a part in my stopping in a bit more.

Few pints three or four times a week isn't going to break the bank. And that's what used to be the crack. Many don't seem to bother with midweek down the local anymore.

True.
Used to always be gadgys you could set your clock by in locals. Eight o’clock Eddie, Nine o’clock Nick, Ten o’clock Tel etc. They’d come in mon-thurs dead on time and have the same drink and number of em......unfortunately a lot had the same conversations anarl.
These fellers kept the pub game going and made a place look busy thus making it look like a place worth frequenting to strangers or new arrivals to the area. They tended to live just round the corner cos no ones gonna travel any distance for three or four pints.
Now with a lot of small locals closing they or their modern day equivalent would have to travel further for their couple of hours out of the house......are they gonna bother?

 

[Redandwhitedust]

You simply can’t. You can’t expect a landlord to trade without a profit, okay maybe factor in a salary then a marginal profit, but certainly not at a loss or without personal income.

Then when you look at any pubco, these are businesses too with targets and hungry executives. Unless the change means the government will change everyone to a not for profit charity, then they will always seek to maximise revenues and minimise costs. It’s the nature of a capitalist society.

Exactly.
I'm no expert in the trade or how pub businesses are set up. My understanding is that if you run a pub, you either own it, lease it or are paid to run it.

In the case of the first two, they are the ones at threat from the big businesses that can afford to pay someone.
I think I'm right in saying that the people who run their own pub can negotiate cheaper beer to start with for a supplier, but not negotiate the kind of discounts a huge chain can, (ie the people who are paid to run it).
The ones who lease it as tenants can't negotiate the price of the beer, but have to pay the price set by the pubco/brewery which is highly inflated and delivers the profits to the pubco.

So a beer tax reduction is pointless for a tenant as it probably wont be passed on to them and will just go straight into the pubcos pocket? Or does the pub pay the Beer Duty?

 

[riffraff]

Distance to yer local really plays a part imho.
Ours is 6-7 mins away but uphill. Then beyond that there’s five within two mins of each other. Once we’ve walked to the first one we and everyone in the area are spoilt for choice which means the real local misses out and consequently the possible regulars are scattered six ways. Thus depriving the area of a community type pub.
If one of those six was at the bottom of the hill beside the river it would become a magnet for the downhill locals and have little effect on the uphill area as six are struggling tbh.
Too many locals eh? Nivver thought I’d ever say that.

Exactly.
I'm no expert in the trade or how pub businesses are set up. My understanding is that if you run a pub, you either own it, lease it or are paid to run it.

In the case of the first two, they are the ones at threat from the big businesses that can afford to pay someone.
I think I'm right in saying that the people who run their own pub can negotiate cheaper beer to start with for a supplier, but not negotiate the kind of discounts a huge chain can, (ie the people who are paid to run it).
The ones who lease it as tenants can't negotiate the price of the beer, but have to pay the price set by the pubco/brewery which is highly inflated and delivers the profits to the pubco.

So a beer tax reduction is pointless for a tenant as it probably wont be passed on to them and will just go straight into the pubcos pocket? Or does the pub pay the Beer Duty?

In the end it all comes down to the fact that a large number of people don’t like paying tax and the govt have to get money from somewhere.

 

[JAZZMANB]

I think the decline of the pub has a good few reasons for it and all basically tie into the mix of the mindset of the population.

1. The smoking ban didn't help.

2. The price of a pint is extortionate, generally in pubs, or if it's sensible, it's generally sub standard.

3. Young people tend to work on a feast and a famine in their monthly incomes, choosing to have one week and week end blow out and 3 weeks/ weekends scraping the barrel, kiind of thing.

4. Many older people who generally did use the pubs, stay in with a wine or a few cans or even a bottle of gin/vodka or whatever and preferring to choose their going out periods in carveries or a meal with a few drinks and negating the pubs and such like.

5. the biggest issue. People appear to have forgotten how to interact, physically.
You see them sitting there glued to their phones and you're lucky to get a few hmmm's if you're lucky.

6. There's far too many nutters about who are more than willing to smash a glass in your face or actually stab you....etc....plus the media ramping it all up to create a sort of no go mindset on many people going to pubs.

Mix them all in and you end up with the scarcity we see today.

Obviously in my own opinion.

The media has worked for you on No 6
I've seen about 15 proper fights in 37 years in pubs .

Distance to yer local really plays a part imho.
Ours is 6-7 mins away but uphill. Then beyond that there’s five within two mins of each other. Once we’ve walked to the first one we and everyone in the area are spoilt for choice which means the real local misses out and consequently the possible regulars are scattered six ways. Thus depriving the area of a community type pub.
If one of those six was at the bottom of the hill beside the river it would become a magnet for the downhill locals and have little effect on the uphill area as six are struggling tbh.
Too many locals eh? Nivver thought I’d ever say that.


In the end it all comes down to the fact that a large number of people don’t like paying tax and the govt have to get money from somewhere.

Thing is you see pubs closing that are the centre of the community with a decent chunk of houses around it. Loads of lovely village pubs you've drove past for years .
Drive to the lakes through wear dale ,you're saying that was a pub ,that was a pub

 

[riffraff]

The media has worked for you on No 6
I've seen about 15 proper fights in 37 years in pubs .

Thing is you see pubs closing that are the centre of the community with a decent chunk of houses around it. Loads of lovely village pubs you've drove past for years .
Drive to the lakes through wear dale ,you're saying that was a pub ,that was a pub

Aye it’s a combo of stuff and every closure will have different %s of the various elements.