The happy clappers have had their time


I was asking the question because I see a clear divide amongst the lads in the WhatsApp and wondered whether it translated onto here.

Maybe that’s the difference, maybe they have more fans who see football and the club as their life, compared with us.
The last few years have sucked the life and optimism out of a lot of our fanbase in my opinion. We’ve had a shite time of it really for a club of our history and size and I think people have almost come to expect the worst so anything else is often seen as enough

The worst they’ve had is one season in the championship which Ashley bank rolled and got them straight back up……they’d be exactly the same if they’d had to experience what we have had.

Just my opinion
 
But don’t we make it easy for our owners? Turn up at 2:55, leave at 4:45 having hardly uttered a word, apart from a few bairns in the south stand? They must think we’re all happy with the ‘as-is’.
 
When we decked our home end bar out in their colours & rolled out the red carpet ?
They took the piss o n& off the pitch , it was a fuckin disgrace & KLD & co got off very lightly
They fucked up with that no doubt about it but what do you suggest, we run them out? Are you denying we’ve been on an upward trajectory since they’ve owned the club?
 
So what does this fan wide refusal of acceptance look like? What is it you suggest we do?

Exactly this.

Other than burst a blood vessel or two, there is never a concrete action or demand expected by such posts?

It’s just a thinly veiled exercise in feeling superior to, and/or trying to get at, other fans. All it is.

Waste of words.
 
And I appreciate your kindness (if that’s what it’s meant as), but more importantly your honesty. I also appreciate that you’ve read my point and explained why you disagree. I love this board when people debate and post reasoned counter arguments, which I’ve been known not to do.

I agree, we are unbelievably loyal. I would never question the loyalty of our fanbase. I was one of 27k season ticket holders in league one and also gave the club money during Covid to make sure it didn’t go out of business.

What I am questioning is their expectations.
I disagree that people have high ambitions. We limped till the end of last season and whilst we were never likely to go down, people just turned up and clapped them off. There was a fair amount of our support that didn’t think taking 102 days to appoint a head coach was concerning.


So the club wasn’t bought with parachute payments?

No. It was crappy construction of the original deal. Short and Madrox claimed the club was debt free when it wasn't. What happened was that Short moved the last £25m into Drumaville before the deal completed, on the understanding that it would be paid by the club, and the only way that could be done was with part of the parachute (that years total payment was about £38m). However, the idiots constructed the deal in such a way as it had to go through Madrox. The whole thing was bolloxed from the start. The transfer of the loan was evidenced by charges over Short assets, including the Hilton, which is where I found them), for a new loan of £25m from SBC to Drumaville. A loan that a non-trading company really had no need for, and just happened to be from the same bank that loaned to SBC. At this time, SBC did not lift the charges on Sunderland's assets. None of the charges were relieved until after Madrox had made all payments to Short (the reason behind the short-term loan from Close Brothers). It's the combination of the charges, and the timing of their creation and release, which are the smoking gun. That £25m had nothing to do with the share purchase, and everything to do with repaying a club debt whch had been window dressed to disguise the lie that the club was debt free. It never was.
 
Good post mate, it was genuine kindness and not being funny. We’re the best supporters in the land and I’ll die on that hill any day of the week. We maybe have slightly different views as to what the powers that he should be doing but we both ultimately want the same thing.

I honestly don’t want the club to fail and I don’t come on here to be negative. Yes I may vent more on here and spend more time in the rabbit after a victory but that’s just the mood of a football fan.

I want Sunderland in the top flight and I won’t rest until we’re back there. What me not resting will achieve I’ve not the foggiest but hand on heart I just want success for our club.
 
We won’t be back next season. This is one of the OPs points. A lot of realists know this and it’s because of lack of investment. When we’re not back in the PL next season, 90% of our fans will keep quiet and go again. Only we’ll probably fail again without serious investment. This is his point.
Thing is. We really could. We're nailed on for play offs. I know we were crap yesterday but I'm.as certain as I can be we would not be as bad again if we met Coventry over 2 games. After that it's a one off game.
 
There’s 8 games to go till the play offs. There’s so much that can and will change between now and then.
I'm talking about you saying some fans have gave up...the players certainly look like they have. Like Roberts said, it was unacceptable. It's hard to keep the faith when you see players pulling out of 50/50's like yesterday. Roberts pulled out of 2 or 3. We need our beginning of the season attitude and workrate to reappear if we are going to do anything mate.
 
No. It was crappy construction of the original deal. Short and Madrox claimed the club was debt free when it wasn't. What happened was that Short moved the last £25m into Drumaville before the deal completed, on the understanding that it would be paid by the club, and the only way that could be done was with part of the parachute (that years total payment was about £38m). However, the idiots constructed the deal in such a way as it had to go through Madrox. The whole thing was bolloxed from the start. The transfer of the loan was evidenced by charges over Short assets, including the Hilton, which is where I found them), for a new loan of £25m from SBC to Drumaville. A loan that a non-trading company really had no need for, and just happened to be from the same bank that loaned to SBC. At this time, SBC did not lift the charges on Sunderland's assets. None of the charges were relieved until after Madrox had made all payments to Short (the reason behind the short-term loan from Close Brothers). It's the combination of the charges, and the timing of their creation and release, which are the smoking gun. That £25m had nothing to do with the share purchase, and everything to do with repaying a club debt whch had been window dressed to disguise the lie that the club was debt free. It never was.

I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed reply but I’m not as financially competent as you.

From the average fans point of view, I believe most think that the final parachute payment of £25m was transferred to short, and Short wrote off the remaining £13m in debt, leaving us debt free but with no parachute payments.

Is that correct? If not, please explain like I’m a 5 year old (as some on here think I am)
 
The last few years have sucked the life and optimism out of a lot of our fanbase in my opinion. We’ve had a shite time of it really for a club of our history and size and I think people have almost come to expect the worst so anything else is often seen as enough

The worst they’ve had is one season in the championship which Ashley bank rolled and got them straight back up……they’d be exactly the same if they’d had to experience what we have had.

Just my opinion
Another good post and something people conveniently choose to ignore. Had the mags not been taken over they’d have gone down. Who knows what would have happened after that but if it turned into 5-6 years in the championship, you can knock 15k off their current gate for a start. And you wouldn’t see a mag top in Seaburn.
 
I do think you also need to consider each season on its own merits. I might be wrong, but I had a quick look and I'm sure 94 points is the highest a second placed side has had in this division. It's highly possible that might not even get third this season. Burnley need 16 points from 24 to reach that total. It looks like being an exceptionally high total required. I wish we hadn't dropped off, but up against three recent PL sides with deeper squads and pockets, in a league where no fucker seems to be able to beat them, it would be pretty harsh to say it's unacceptable if we don't go up!
 

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