The happy clappers have had their time


The point is that KLD and co, have failed to invest in January, we were only ever 2 injuries or suspensions away from not being able to compete, if the current form continues we may well not even be in the play offs. A huge missed opportunity to get into the premier league.
So when the end of the season comes, the squad will be sold off, Patterson, cirkin, Neil, Jobe, Mundle, Rigg and Ballard will all be gone. A massive squad rebuild of kids we have never heard of and a season of huffing and puffing, rinse, repeat……
What to do? Don’t renew your season ticket, put them on edge, call them out, tell them what you think, I don’t personally care if you clap or not, what is clear is that we need to do something at the end of the season (if we don’t make the play offs).
Well with Mundle, Watson and Browne still sidelined, we brought in Le Fee, who's capable of playing across those positions.

We apparently tried for Diaz, but he was only interested in going to Sheff United. We also had a fit and firing Isidor up front, with Mayenda knocking on the door. So what did you want us to do? Pay top dollar for second fiddle?

I think we're short of cover at full back, but nobody was screaming for Hume and Cirkin to be replaced. So again, how do you go about shopping for 2nd fiddle in January? And it certainly wouldn't have been prudent to look at replacing either of those two at the time.
 
I dont know about that, as an adult i've lived in Newcastle in my twenties and now in my 30s back in Sunderland and you get just as much complaining about new developments, the same type of shops opening student accomodation etc in both. The reality is its not the complaining its just that Newcastle has had a lot more investment as a city in the last 20-30 years than Sunderland, you can go into a number of reasons why that is but the boromoter of how many people moan compared to people bigging up there city isnt one of them really. Theres now a bit of investment into Sunderland happening now so perceptions should change hopefully.

Footbal wise, people say we accept mediocrity but what can fans actually do? by and large football clubs are at the whim of the people who own them. I've had a season ticket since i was 9 years old and by and large i havent seen any fan led protest make a change, Newcastle protested Mike Ashley but he didnt budge he only sold because he got a lovely pot of gold, Manchester United protest but they havent got rid of the Glazers are still there just with Jim Ratcliffe now taking half the burden. In the championship Sheff Wed are unhappy with their owner but hes not budging, Reading had crap owners and they didnt go until they fell out the league.

I guess the point im making is i support the club because i love it and thats all i can do, if i stopped loving it i'd stop going because thats all i can do. Do i think we could do with a bit more more investment in recruitment and think the current onwership have made bad mistakes, yes. Do i think we're on the right track to get out of the league at the moment yes, that could change down the line but at the moment i feel the club is going in the right direction, abliet not as fast or smoothly as anyone would ideally like. But whether im a "happy clapper" a "doom monger" or anywhere unbetween it's just the luck of the draw what owner your club ends up with and there isnt really anything a fan can do except enjoy the good stuff, try not to let the bad stuff effect you as its out of your control and if it gets too much it might be time to give it up.
Very good post.
 
Would anyone argue he's a good LB and not just someone filling in there because we've had no other options at the time?

Which is the point I'm trying to make that we've used another Jan window when right in the hunt for promotion. Not to strengthen in areas we are weak.

In Mowbray time was a ST and defenders and it's the same again this season.

This is like the number 9 argument when we already have Wilson and Mundle.

What level left back do you think is going to come to Sunderland as 3rd choice?

In my opinion it wouldn’t be one better than Leo Hjelde.
 
If 80 of our 146 years, the most recent ones as well were underachieving and failure, how is it still underachieving and not the mean?
Because the precedent was set all those years ago. For a long period we were unequivocally one of the biggest clubs in the land, and one of the most successful. You only have to look at the all time league tables to realise that, despite us pissing about for the past 70 years.

It's a ridiculously big football club, and you know that.
 
This board has only had the club 4 years and in that time they have got us promoted once and likely into the play offs in the league above twice, while lowering the average age of the squad, tying our better players to long term contracts, investing in our infrastructure and putting our finances on a more stable footing.

Just some facts for context.

They are doing a decent job in all fairness by any sensible metric putting your toddler foot stomping emotions aside.
This for me. Putting pressure on ownership is for when the club is under achieving and drifting over a period of time. I always say it's like a pyramid; players are the short term, managers and head coaches a bit longer term, recruitment team a longer term again, and ownership the longest term.

There's too many variables in football to say "we must go up next season or the owner is a failure". Realistically if parachute teams come down and make no mistakes we'll always have a hard time beating them. Not impossible, but not really fair to say the board have failed if we just miss out.

We need to see the direction of travel being sensible. Not making unsustainable losses, seeing the value of the squad increase, getting consistently good positions. It's not happy clapping to say that we've done well since coming up and this is the best season we've had.

I don't demand promotion next season if we miss out this. I'd expect us to keep progressing and be competitive, to keep closing the gap between parachute teams and be in a position to take advantage when the opportunity arises. Keep building, ensure we reinvest the majority of the sales we make, and the ownership have done what I expect of them
 
This board has only had the club 4 years and in that time they have got us promoted once and likely into the play offs in the league above twice, while lowering the average age of the squad, tying our better players to long term contracts, investing in our infrastructure and putting our finances on a more stable footing.

Just some facts for context.

They are doing a decent job in all fairness by any sensible metric putting your toddler foot stomping emotions aside.
Some things can be done to a fault mind.

I can see the benefit's in nurturing young talent, but I'm not interested in being the youngest team ever.

The balance probably hasn't been quite right in that respect.
 
Because the precedent was set all those years ago. For a long period we were unequivocally one of the biggest clubs in the land, and one of the most successful. You only have to look at the all time league tables to realise that, despite us pissing about for the past 70 years.

It's a ridiculously big football club, and you know that.

I know it's a big football club Chris but subjective size does little against budget and ability, two factors that are far more important when it comes to winning consistently on a football pitch.

I honestly do not understand how you can suggest a standard was set before and around 1900 and not since, seems ludicrous to me.
 
This is like the number 9 argument when we already have Wilson and Mundle.

What level left back do you think is going to come to Sunderland as 3rd choice?

In my opinion it wouldn’t be one better than Leo Hjelde.
Cirkin/Alese are first and second choice and Alese was ruled out for the season in Jan. Soon as that happened we should have been in for a LB.

Hjelde isn't a good enough player for a side competing to get into the Prem nor is he the prem. So not really much point in playing him, fact he didn't come on at the weekend when Cirkin went off screams volumes.

So we'd surely have been signing someone as second choice, in the knowledge cirkin is a crock and likely they'd be first choice.

We also haven't had a backup RB(that wasn't makeshift in Gooch/Roberts) for 3 seasons?
 
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Would you prefer to sit forever in the championship?
No but we’d get absolutely mullered in the premier league currently and the ownership don’t have the funds/interest in changing their business model.

As I say, be class if some mental sugar daddy came along, hell even Leeds had to be taken by Red Bull to be where they are now. But until then, there is absolutely nothing we can do.
 
No but we’d get absolutely mullered in the premier league currently and the ownership don’t have the funds/interest in changing their business model.

As I say, be class if some mental sugar daddy came along, hell even Leeds had to be taken by Red Bull to be where they are now. But until then, there is absolutely nothing we can do.
May as well fold the club if we're just accepting holding out for a miracle then.

What's the point in any of us discussing this. Should just turn the Prem into a North American style closed shop franchise bollocks league
 
I don't perhaps agree with how you've worded this, but I get what you're saying. It seems like we've put up with mediocrity and half-arsed attitudes for too long at our club. We've seen the club stagnate whilst others have absolutely thrived. I mean, you look at some of the clubs that have really kicked on and done something ambitious to really better themselves over the last twenty or so years, whilst we've just bobbed up and down, just happy to survive sometimes. Look at Bournemouth, look at Brighton, look at Brentford, look at other clubs that have been in our predicament when they found themselves in League 1 - Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield United.

All of those clubs are now way ahead of us in the pecking order. Look at clubs like Birmingham and Wrexham, who are showing real ambition and will most likely be in the same division as us next season.

Also, think about the big picture. The ones on here tonight that are saying, "Aye, they've spent 500 million just to win a League Cup... Aye, they've spent 500 million and won a League Cup, but do you really think they're going to want to stop at that? Hell, no. And the more sustained success THEY have, the more it's going to effect US, being the closest league club next to them. The more success that they end up with, the more irrelevant we'll end up becoming. Do you really think that if they have a run of success over the next decade or so, that you'll be seeing loads of kids running around the north-east wearing Sunderland tops? If we lose the next generation of fans, we'll become a nothing club. Unsustainable. Destined to scratch around the lower leagues for years, whilst having to put up with that lot dominating, if not nationally, but certainly in this immediate area.

And then what? Irrelevance? Oblivion? You look at clubs like Oldham, who thirty years ago were a Premier League club. But having Man Utd a few miles away, and the way they were dominant in the 90's lured a whole generation of supporters who may have grown up in Oldham, away from their local club, to support a club that was successful, that was ambitious. Where are Oldham now? The National League.

This is the worry for many supporters right now. Them having success up the road can only be a bad thing for our club. And unless the club starts to show a bit of ambition and determination to get us to a level where we could realistically compete, maybe not for silverware, but at least having a go at staying relevant, it's only going to get worse. Rightly or wrongly, label some of us as bedwetters. Call us hysterical. But at the end of the day, a lot of us are very rightly worried for the future of the club.
Well put.

One of the biggest objections I have to the “happy clappers” as the OP puts it, is how they glorify not just mediocrity, but in a lot of cases, absolute shite. Worse still, they’ll become totally indignant if anyone even has a bad word said against the current flavour of the month.

It is actually a problem.
 
I know it's a big football club Chris but subjective size does little against budget and ability, two factors that are far more important when it comes to winning consistently on a football pitch.

I honestly do not understand how you can suggest a standard was set before and around 1900 and not since, seems ludicrous to me.
I was talkin' pre-relegation in the 50s.

The club has underachieved against it's historic position ever since. Budget and ability is a different conversation, though I admit, not unrelated. That depends on what moment in time you want to stick your pin in.
 
I don't perhaps agree with how you've worded this, but I get what you're saying. It seems like we've put up with mediocrity and half-arsed attitudes for too long at our club. We've seen the club stagnate whilst others have absolutely thrived. I mean, you look at some of the clubs that have really kicked on and done something ambitious to really better themselves over the last twenty or so years, whilst we've just bobbed up and down, just happy to survive sometimes. Look at Bournemouth, look at Brighton, look at Brentford, look at other clubs that have been in our predicament when they found themselves in League 1 - Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield United.

All of those clubs are now way ahead of us in the pecking order. Look at clubs like Birmingham and Wrexham, who are showing real ambition and will most likely be in the same division as us next season.

Also, think about the big picture. The ones on here tonight that are saying, "Aye, they've spent 500 million just to win a League Cup... Aye, they've spent 500 million and won a League Cup, but do you really think they're going to want to stop at that? Hell, no. And the more sustained success THEY have, the more it's going to effect US, being the closest league club next to them. The more success that they end up with, the more irrelevant we'll end up becoming. Do you really think that if they have a run of success over the next decade or so, that you'll be seeing loads of kids running around the north-east wearing Sunderland tops? If we lose the next generation of fans, we'll become a nothing club. Unsustainable. Destined to scratch around the lower leagues for years, whilst having to put up with that lot dominating, if not nationally, but certainly in this immediate area.

And then what? Irrelevance? Oblivion? You look at clubs like Oldham, who thirty years ago were a Premier League club. But having Man Utd a few miles away, and the way they were dominant in the 90's lured a whole generation of supporters who may have grown up in Oldham, away from their local club, to support a club that was successful, that was ambitious. Where are Oldham now? The National League.

This is the worry for many supporters right now. Them having success up the road can only be a bad thing for our club. And unless the club starts to show a bit of ambition and determination to get us to a level where we could realistically compete, maybe not for silverware, but at least having a go at staying relevant, it's only going to get worse. Rightly or wrongly, label some of us as bedwetters. Call us hysterical. But at the end of the day, a lot of us are very rightly worried for the future of the club.
An excellent post
 

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