The happy clappers have had their time


If I’ve missed replies then honestly point them out. The best thing about this board is the variety of view points!

Aye, I’m constantly annoyed. That’s because I follow sunderland and we’ve been out of the PL for 8 years. I won’t apologise for being annoyed about that.
Look at the thread title man, then you're saying stuff like that. There's no such thing as 'happy clappers' or 'doom mongers'
 
I don't think it's ever a line in the sand like that where you say "it has to be now or you've failed", there's too many variables in football. At the minute I can see the progress we're making. The squad has more quality and more value than when we came up. You're right, there's that worry that we keep selling the good ones too quickly and never go up because we keep just replacing them. Obviously the theory is that, even if we need one big sale, if the others coming in as a result are of a higher standard than what's here already we'll keep improving. There will be a season where the points needed aren't as high and, hopefully, we'll be the ones to capitalise.

We know the squad now is better than it was a couple of years ago,light years ahead of 4 years ago. We're likely to get or best finish since coming back up, with the best squad. The signs are positive enough for me that we won't need to issue statements etc which would naturally have to lead to protests, we're progressing imo

But rawa represent the members, so if a lot of people raised it, that would obviously be the thing that would put it on the table, rather than the feelings of individual board members

Thanks mate. You know I respect your views.

For me there has to be a point, and fairly soon, that people say enough is enough. Leeds spent 20 years out of the PL and I think we’re in danger of doing just that.

I agree that our squad is good for this level and we can definitely compete, selling one a season etc. But that can’t be good enough for SAFC. I’d like to think that RAWA, regardless of the membership, would lead the way and let the club know that.
 
I’ve already posted it. To start, if we aren’t promoted I think every fan should be contacting the official supporters trust (RAWA) letting them know that anything other than promotion won’t be accepted.

That way, they can go to the club with a clear mandate pointing out what the fans want.

They’re very similar to a trade union. They can only act on the will of the membership. When the membership make their viewpoint clear, they can go to the employer (or the club in this case) and present their point.
They already know what the fans want, what’s the point of that?
 
I’m just telling you what the OPs point is.

You’ve supported the club for 60 years, blindly and no matter what, which is amazing. It’s been mainly shite, however.

Still wouldn’t change it for the world but we are more likely to have another shite 60 years then a great 60 years cos the fans will go anyway.
I know what the OPs point is. I can read. I don't need an explanation.

And I happen to think his point is bullshit.

I also think it is patronising in the extreme, with no self awareness.

"I won't rest until......"

Like some kind of Red and White striped Clarke Kent striding around proclaiming he won't settle until he gets his way.

It's bollox, it's childish, it's egotistical and it's just plain daft.

He's a gob on a stick.
 
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That squad is likely to be butchered though. A bit investment in January and we would have had a far better chance to keep it together and build on it.
But again, we were linked with cannon and Diaz for about £20m. Unless they were good enough to make the difference, which they don't really look like based on what I've seen of them at sheff united, that spending might have meant we had to sell more players in the summer tbh.

I don't think we'll butcher the squad. But I'm also pretty relaxed if any of them go. We'll get good money, which wasn't always the case. Bit of a worry with Neil and Cirkin being near the end of their contracts but I'm not convinced they'll get head turning offers anyway. If we get good enough money, I trust us to reinvest it well, it's not like we can't improve on any of the players at the club at the minute. I think we're in a pretty good place tbh, albeit recent performances have been depressing
 
KLD net worth supposedly is around £2bn, and to compare Tony Bloom at Brighton is around the £1.5bn mark.

Bloom has put around £400m into Brighton via interest free loans, and in our last accounts our Owners put in £1.8m vs £8.2m overdraft facility, which cost £626k interest.

There's finance people who get on here who can set me right, but is there any reason why KLD couldn't do the same?
Unless you're KLD accountant, which neither yoo are I are, then that's impossible to answer. If you can give me reason why he should have, then I'll be happy to agreee.
 
KLD net worth supposedly is around £2bn, and to compare Tony Bloom at Brighton is around the £1.5bn mark.

Bloom has put around £400m into Brighton via interest free loans, and in our last accounts our Owners put in £1.8m vs £8.2m overdraft facility, which cost £626k interest.

There's finance people who get on here who can set me right, but is there any reason why KLD couldn't do the same?

Bloom is a fan, Putting more than 25% of your net worth into a football club is frankly insane. KLD could certainly do the same; whether that's sensible is another matter. Owning Sunderland turned Ellis Short from a billionaire to a milliionaire.
 
I don't really agree with the op but don't think it's one to write off either.

The time to come back to it is in the summer if we lose in the playoffs. Feels like a big summer and one where we will see exactly what the clubs ambitions are. We will definitely lose a few players and the fans won't accept replacing them with very young players for 3/4m imo. We've spent 3 championship seasons maturing this squad and we can't just start the process again rather than spend a few quid.
The clubs ambition was shown in January when once again the Owner hasn’t backed the side with the recruitment of at least three players that was needed to give us the best opportunity of a top two finish….. CF RW and LB
 
I know what the OPs point is. I can read. I don't need an explanation.

And I happen to think his point is bullshit.

I also think it is patronising in the extreme, with no self awareness.

"I won't rest until......"

Like some kind of Red and White striped Clarke Kent striding around proclaiming he won't settle until he gets his way.

It's bollox, it's childish, it's egotistical and it's just plain daft.

He's a gob on a stick.

I’ll never tell you what to think, you’ve been alive a hell of a lot longer than me and you’re probably a lot wiser than me. You’ve also probably had a lot more nights in the Ship A or down Union street than I have!

What you will find from me, however, is my honest opinion. I’ll happily debate anyone’s opinion and accept anyone’s rebuttal.
 
Unless you're KLD accountant, which neither yoo are I are, then that's impossible to answer. If you can give me reason why he should have, then I'll be happy to agreee.
Well if you buy a football club with a billion pound fortune behind you, I think it's a fair assumption to think he'd want to put a lot of funding in to make it successful and drive it forward? Bit like the example of Tony Bloom at Brighton.
 
Bloom is a fan, Putting more than 25% of your net worth into a football club is frankly insane. KLD could certainly do the same; whether that's sensible is another matter. Owning Sunderland turned Ellis Short from a billionaire to a milliionaire.

FWIW, I agree following another Ellis short business model isn’t the right way.

But to me, it feels like we’ve gone from driving around in a rolls Royce burning petrol for no reason, to getting a Tesla and walking to Tesco cos it’s cheaper.
 
Bloom is a fan, Putting more than 25% of your net worth into a football club is frankly insane. KLD could certainly do the same; whether that's sensible is another matter. Owning Sunderland turned Ellis Short from a billionaire to a milliionaire.
He is a fan, but has now received large chunks of that investment back as they have kicked on. Surely we have to be bold and that's not saying go back to what happened under Short.

Also think using that example of Short isn't a good one because the set up of the club was different. At least now we have sensible people it would seem in charge who wouldn't sign off on some of the stupid spending we undertook back then. But it still needs some ambition and serious finance to get us even half way up the PL if we ever get there.
 
He is a fan, but has now received large chunks of that investment back as they have kicked on. Surely we have to be bold and that's not saying go back to what happened under Short.

Also think using that example of Short isn't a good one because the set up of the club was different. At least now we have sensible people it would seem in charge who wouldn't sign off on some of the stupid spending we undertook back then. But it still needs some ambition and serious finance to get us even half way up the PL if we ever get there.

He is a fan, but does it show that you need a multi billionaire from the fanbase to get you to the PL?
 
Clapped us out of the PL. Clapped us out of the championship.

Clapped a sunderland fan wishing Charlton fans well in 2019. Clapped them after defeats to Lincoln and Luton in the playoffs.

Critical of any fan who dares to say anything against the club. Defended the ownership after KLD was proven to have lied to the fans (those loans been turned into equity yet?)

It’s time for a bit of pressure on the hierarchy. Time for them to see that it’s not acceptable for SAFC to be plying their trade outside of the PL, and their loyal and numerous fans will not accept anything else.

This doesn’t mean change of manager, change of ownership or change of the overall business plan.

It means that our longest spell outside of the PL in history, or hoping to “find form” going into a playoff campaign, isn’t young to be accepted as acceptable.

6 times champions of England, 2 time FA cup winners, 10th in the overall top flight table, let’s start acting like it. Owners, directors, coaches, players & fans. What we’re currently seeing isn’t good enough and it’s incumbent on us all to sort the fucker out.
I don't perhaps agree with how you've worded this, but I get what you're saying. It seems like we've put up with mediocrity and half-arsed attitudes for too long at our club. We've seen the club stagnate whilst others have absolutely thrived. I mean, you look at some of the clubs that have really kicked on and done something ambitious to really better themselves over the last twenty or so years, whilst we've just bobbed up and down, just happy to survive sometimes. Look at Bournemouth, look at Brighton, look at Brentford, look at other clubs that have been in our predicament when they found themselves in League 1 - Leicester, Wolves, Sheffield United.

All of those clubs are now way ahead of us in the pecking order. Look at clubs like Birmingham and Wrexham, who are showing real ambition and will most likely be in the same division as us next season.

Also, think about the big picture. The ones on here tonight that are saying, "Aye, they've spent 500 million just to win a League Cup... Aye, they've spent 500 million and won a League Cup, but do you really think they're going to want to stop at that? Hell, no. And the more sustained success THEY have, the more it's going to effect US, being the closest league club next to them. The more success that they end up with, the more irrelevant we'll end up becoming. Do you really think that if they have a run of success over the next decade or so, that you'll be seeing loads of kids running around the north-east wearing Sunderland tops? If we lose the next generation of fans, we'll become a nothing club. Unsustainable. Destined to scratch around the lower leagues for years, whilst having to put up with that lot dominating, if not nationally, but certainly in this immediate area.

And then what? Irrelevance? Oblivion? You look at clubs like Oldham, who thirty years ago were a Premier League club. But having Man Utd a few miles away, and the way they were dominant in the 90's lured a whole generation of supporters who may have grown up in Oldham, away from their local club, to support a club that was successful, that was ambitious. Where are Oldham now? The National League.

This is the worry for many supporters right now. Them having success up the road can only be a bad thing for our club. And unless the club starts to show a bit of ambition and determination to get us to a level where we could realistically compete, maybe not for silverware, but at least having a go at staying relevant, it's only going to get worse. Rightly or wrongly, label some of us as bedwetters. Call us hysterical. But at the end of the day, a lot of us are very rightly worried for the future of the club.
 
This is the worry for many supporters right now. Them having success up the road can only be a bad thing for our club. And unless the club starts to show a bit of ambition and determination to get us to a level where we could realistically compete, maybe not for silverware, but at least having a go at staying relevant, it's only going to get worse. Rightly or wrongly, label some of us as bedwetters. Call us hysterical. But at the end of the day, a lot of us are very rightly worried for the future of the club.
There’s nothing you can do about Newcastle. Man City were in the Third Tier the year Man Utd won the Treble and they survived. You won’t be able to stop people being drawn in by the Saudis if they’re that way inclined. But it’s pointless worrying about them it really is.
 

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