The game changers

Its been pilloried by the academic community for its highly selective representation of the research on the subject. The consensus is it verges on propaganda piece.

An entirely plant based diet is unlikely to be optimal for performance and health just as a predminantly meat based one isn't optimal.

There are a host of moral and ethical reasons to be vegan but let's not pretend elite performance is one of them when it's far from clear cut, if not outright untrue.


T2 diabetes is one thing that a plant based diet really is able to reverse tbh Lewby Pubey.
It is if they're in a calorie deficit but it won't be as affective as a protein meat based diet when all things are equal because a ketogenic diet has little to no carbs.

Technically any calorie deficit will work which is why keto zealot's are dogepots snarl.
 



Enjoy your steaks folks
Joe wilks debated that and tore that Chris kessler a new one.
It must have damaged him a lot, as Chris kessler was given so bad advice it's untrue.
Wasn’t it ripped to bits as mostly bullshit? This the one where people they followed had to be cut cause they went back to meat for their health?
People like kessler debunked it, then wilks proved that kessler was incorrect.
It's a load of shit full of lies and propaganda.

If people don't want to eat meat for moral or environmental reasons then that's fine, but as usual the vegan community is trying to do the thing they're accusing the meat industry of doing, twisting "studies" to show their lifestyle is good.

The thing anyone should take from it is we should eat more unprocessed fruit and veg, but to just go plant based, well what if all I ate was white bread, it's plant based and good for you ?? Course not, and what are people predisposed to type 2 diabetes supposed to do, just eat plant based carbs and have high blood sugar.

Saying that I still liked the documentary haha it was interesting what it said about b12.
Nar, it's not full of bullshit at all.
Some people tried to say it was then they had were proven to be bullshit themselves.
The documentary is factual and good.
Debunking the debunk (I still eat meat btw 😂 )

That podcast is brilliant.

This episode of freakonomics about the future of the meat industry is very interesting.
 
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Joe wilks debated that and tore that Chris kessler a new one.
It must have damaged him a lot, as Chris kessler was given so bad advice it's untrue.

People like kessler debunked it, then wilks proved that kessler was incorrect.

Nar, it's not full of bullshit at all.
Some people tried to say it was then they had were proven to be bullshit themselves.
The documentary is factual and good.

That podcast is brilliant.

I enjoyed it.

Still agree with Kessler about plants based with meat for a solid diet though (decent quality meat though)

I cut out meat for a month and felt the same so I'm eating meat again
 
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I enjoyed it.

Still agree with Kessler about plants based with meat for a solid diet though (decent quality meat though)

I cut out meat for a month and felt the same so I'm eating meat again
He talks about grass fed free range animals, and I think stuff like emu ffs!
It was embarrassing

The majority of folk buy cheap supermarket meat, not butchers meat.
Regardless of what you get, red meat isn't good for you.
But listening to that freakonomics podcast and we will all be vegan in 20 years anyway.
The advancement in science the only way we can get selfish folk to stop purchasing so much meat from animals which are killing the planet
 
He talks about grass fed free range animals, and I think stuff like emu ffs!
It was embarrassing

The majority of folk buy cheap supermarket meat, not butchers meat.
Regardless of what you get, red meat isn't good for you.
But listening to that freakonomics podcast and we will all be vegan in 20 years anyway.
The advancement in science the only way we can get selfish folk to stop purchasing so much meat from animals which are killing the planet

I've cut down on red meat, only eat if I'm out and it's convenient.
 
Joe wilks debated that and tore that Chris kessler a new one.
It must have damaged him a lot, as Chris kessler was given so bad advice it's untrue.

People like kessler debunked it, then wilks proved that kessler was incorrect.

Nar, it's not full of bullshit at all.
Some people tried to say it was then they had were proven to be bullshit themselves.
The documentary is factual and good.

That podcast is brilliant.

This episode of freakonomics about the future of the meat industry is very interesting.
It’s been dedunked and refuted by people far more clued up than kresser. Kresser should have never been the one to de-bunk it on JRE but in typical JRE fashion, he has these people on, he’s not held in high regard, he’s an acupuncturist.

if I never hear the word forest plot ever again it’ll be too soon.
 
It’s been dedunked and refuted by people far more clued up than kresser. Kresser should have never been the one to de-bunk it on JRE but in typical JRE fashion, he has these people on, he’s not held in high regard, he’s an acupuncturist.

if I never hear the word forest plot ever again it’ll be too soon.
:D
I haven't seen it debunked anywhere else, except for a mens health mag (where once again the debunking was debunked).
But then again, maybe Im losing the (forest) plot...
 
:D
I haven't seen it debunked anywhere else, except for a mens health mag (where once again the debunking was debunked).
But then again, maybe Im losing the (forest) plot...
Layne norton debunked it. Then he’s just released a de-bunking of the debunking debunk, but I haven’t read/seen that debunk yet
 
Very interesting subject,

to meat or not to meat that is the question, well the answer is simple no one diet can fit all, we are all unique.

But somethings will make a massive difference( talking health here ), cutting out processed food either vegan or meat based has to be number one thing to do for your health, I hate the term vegan as its all mixed up with too many things, much preferer Plant based.

We are seeing the new "vegan" processed foods, which imo will damage health long term as meat processed foods have.

The second important thing, is watching your sugar, I think there's enough evidence to show how high sugar diets are really bad for you, the low fat phase made sure tons of sugar was added to foods as fat was bad, causing many of the problems we have now, I think carb loading for sports wasn't the best science either imo.

Now when you add in the current plight of the planet, there is a case for cutting meat right down in your diet, I like to think of the gorilla which is plant based whole foods, but also eats a small amount of meat, think I read it was something like 85-90 plant with about 10% meat in the diet, I think that sort of thing would work really well for humans give or take, just cut out high processed foods.

I also think the crap about protein protein protein that's shoved down our necks by advertisers is really bad news, just like fat is bad was, I think we eat way too much protein and maybe not enough healthly fats.

anyway like I said interesting subject.
 
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I watched it last night. Even my vegetarian wife reckons it was very biased and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The thing that struck me is that they were saying the Roman gladiators and cavemen ate “predominantly plant based diets”. That doesn’t mean they didn’t eat any animal products.

I’ll carry on eating as I currently do (I’m pretty much a flexitarian due to my wife being veggie anyway).
 
I watched it last night. Even my vegetarian wife reckons it was very biased and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The thing that struck me is that they were saying the Roman gladiators and cavemen ate “predominantly plant based diets”. That doesn’t mean they didn’t eat any animal products.

I’ll carry on eating as I currently do (I’m pretty much a flexitarian due to my wife being veggie anyway).
Yer the presenter went on joe rogan and said the whole documentary wasn’t pro vegan, it was pro plant based. Slippery as an eel.
 
I watched it last night. Even my vegetarian wife reckons it was very biased and to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The thing that struck me is that they were saying the Roman gladiators and cavemen ate “predominantly plant based diets”. That doesn’t mean they didn’t eat any animal products.

I’ll carry on eating as I currently do (I’m pretty much a flexitarian due to my wife being veggie anyway).

Same here, I eat very little meat (could count on my fingers the meat meals last year) and my fiance is vegetarian and we both thought the documentary was ridiculous.
 
Joe wilks debated that and tore that Chris kessler a new one.
It must have damaged him a lot, as Chris kessler was given so bad advice it's untrue.

People like kessler debunked it, then wilks proved that kessler was incorrect.

Nar, it's not full of bullshit at all.
Some people tried to say it was then they had were proven to be bullshit themselves.
The documentary is factual and good.

That podcast is brilliant.

This episode of freakonomics about the future of the meat industry is very interesting.
It's definitely full of shit biased science weighted by people who fundamentally believe being anything but vegan is evil.

That doesn't mean everything it said was bollocks, just that most of it was manipulation of facts, it's just not true that eating meat is bad for you, all of these extreme diets are bollocks if you have a low body fat you're less likely to die young, it has not and won't ever be more complicated than that.
 
It's definitely full of shit biased science weighted by people who fundamentally believe being anything but vegan is evil.

That doesn't mean everything it said was bollocks, just that most of it was manipulation of facts, it's just not true that eating meat is bad for you, all of these extreme diets are bollocks if you have a low body fat you're less likely to die young, it has not and won't ever be more complicated than that.
See, I don't think that's the case. Schwarzenegger certainly isn't vegan anyway.
I thought the main part of 'the game changer' was to show that you can get the same amount of carbs/protein/fats on a fully plant based diet. You don't need meat to get strong or big muscles.
And if that's the case, and you can be fit without needing to resort to killing animals and helping world environmental issues in the meantime by cutting out meat then it's certainly something to think about (looking forward to watching apocalypse cow on 4 tomorrow at 9pm!)
I know taste and cost come into it, so people need to make a decision which works best for them and their family.
I struggle with my 2 kids who don't like a lot of the meat substitution stuff.

I also thought that it was widely accepted that red meat and processed meat and dairy was a huge contributer to high cholesterol and blood pressure and ultimately heart disease / heart attacks (the no 1 killer of people in the world).
A plant based diet should have a much lower saturated and trans fat content than one containing meat.
 
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See, I don't think that's the case. Schwarzenegger certainly isn't vegan anyway.
I thought the main part of 'the game changer' was to show that you can get the same amount of carbs/protein/fats on a fully plant based diet. You don't need meat to get strong or big muscles.
And if that's the case, and you can be fit without needing to resort to killing animals and helping world environmental issues in the meantime by cutting out meat then it's certainly something to think about (looking forward to watching apocalypse cow on 4 tomorrow at 9pm!)
I know taste and cost come into it, so people need to make a decision which works best for them and their family.
I struggle with my 2 kids who don't like a lot of the meat substitution stuff.

I also thought that it was widely accepted that red meat and processed meat and dairy was a huge contributer to high cholesterol and blood pressure and ultimately heart disease / heart attacks (the no 1 killer of people in the world).
A plant based diet should have a much lower saturated and trans fat content than one containing meat.
It’s definitely biased. 4 main things that stand out for me:
  1. The thing with the burritoes and the blood. What is the impact of the Blood plasma being cloudy in both the long and short term? How quickly would it ordinarily move out of your system (the experiment was over 2 days)? Etc etc. Also, the example was just beans. What effect does other vegan food have? It was used for shock value and they didn’t actually explain any of the science behind it.
  2. The elections thing - again this was a 2 day thing and it made no mention of long term studies or anything. It might have just been the body’s initial “shock” at changing to a plant based diet and it would settle down again (would they be back to “normal” if they did the sleep study again after a month of being on a plant based diet?) . None of the science was explained or mentions of longer term studies were mentioned.
  3. Using cavemen and gladiators was definitely biasing the science - There’s evidence they ate a lot of plants but also evidence they ate a lot of meat. They didn’t eat like the stereotypical cavemen on tv etc but they also weren’t vegan
  4. Referring to Patrik Bamounian as “one of the World’s very strongest men” is taking liberties. He’s never competed at WSM, according to Google, he’s competed in the (now defunct) Strongman World Cup but all of these appearances were before he turned vegan and he never finished higher than 9th.
 

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