The finest band to ever come out of the USA

They have to be up there. :cool:

But I think even they would make a claim for The Doors. Or as said above, one of Zappa's incarnations.

But yeah, for their first three albums alone, never mind the following five...they deserve at least a shout.
BÖC have better songs, and a lot more of them.
 

fyl2u

Striker
BÖC have better songs, and a lot more of them.
Are you sure about that?

(P.S. I disagree with the first half of your sentence completely, but I'd be surprised if BOC had more songs than Zappa, unless perhaps you're splitting the various Zappa bands apart from each other, in which case I'd find it more believable).
 
Are you sure about that?

(P.S. I disagree with the first half of your sentence completely, but I'd be surprised if BOC had more songs than Zappa, unless perhaps you're splitting the various Zappa bands apart from each other, in which case I'd find it more believable).
More good songs.
 
I disagree strongly. :)
I'm being a bit dismissive really - can't say I'm very well versed on awld Frank. He doesn't exactly grab is though. It's all a bit out there innit and half the time he's taking the piss. Being experimental n all that's great, having a jam, improvising this and that. I like songs though. Has Frank Zappa got any songs quite as strong as (Don't Fear) The Reaper? I doubt it.
 

fyl2u

Striker
I'm being a bit dismissive really - can't say I'm very well versed on awld Frank. He doesn't exactly grab is though. It's all a bit out there innit and half the time he's taking the piss. Being experimental n all that's great, having a jam, improvising this and that. I like songs though. Has Frank Zappa got any songs quite as strong as (Don't Fear) The Reaper? I doubt it.
Well, they're very different kinds of bands so comparing one song against another will always be very much subjective. DFTR is a great song, no doubt. Zappa has some absolute corkers too though. I can't say there's any I know of with the kind of melancholy of DFTR, but then I'm not aware of any BOC songs with the humour of Zappa, so it's a tricky pair of bands to compare really. "Is this sad song a better sad song than this happy song is a happy song?" It's always going to be a difficult question to ask.

Like I said, I do like what I've heard of BOC and I have a lot of respect for them as a band, so I'm not trying to put them down in any way, I just think Zappa was another level when you take his entire output into account.

I'm sure there are better examples of "great songs of Zappa's" but this one is one of my personal favourites. I'm not saying it's a better song than DFTR, but give this a go and see what you think:

 

zwartekat

Striker
Well, they're very different kinds of bands so comparing one song against another will always be very much subjective. DFTR is a great song, no doubt. Zappa has some absolute corkers too though. I can't say there's any I know of with the kind of melancholy of DFTR, but then I'm not aware of any BOC songs with the humour of Zappa, so it's a tricky pair of bands to compare really. "Is this sad song a better sad song than this happy song is a happy song?" It's always going to be a difficult question to ask.

Like I said, I do like what I've heard of BOC and I have a lot of respect for them as a band, so I'm not trying to put them down in any way, I just think Zappa was another level when you take his entire output into account.

I'm sure there are better examples of "great songs of Zappa's" but this one is one of my personal favourites. I'm not saying it's a better song than DFTR, but give this a go and see what you think:

There is sentence (or part of) on Wikipedia that sums up FZ for me - "... supporters of his music admired its compositional complexity, while critics found it lacking emotional depth". He was always interesting but it sometimes felt like the music took second place behind broader concepts.
 
There is sentence (or part of) on Wikipedia that sums up FZ for me - "... supporters of his music admired its compositional complexity, while critics found it lacking emotional depth". He was always interesting but it sometimes felt like the music took second place behind broader concepts.
In a slightly similar vein I remember reading something about Captain Beefheart's Observatory Crest. He and his long term fans are dismissive of it because it's too conventional a song - but it's a good song.
Well, they're very different kinds of bands so comparing one song against another will always be very much subjective. DFTR is a great song, no doubt. Zappa has some absolute corkers too though. I can't say there's any I know of with the kind of melancholy of DFTR, but then I'm not aware of any BOC songs with the humour of Zappa, so it's a tricky pair of bands to compare really. "Is this sad song a better sad song than this happy song is a happy song?" It's always going to be a difficult question to ask.

Like I said, I do like what I've heard of BOC and I have a lot of respect for them as a band, so I'm not trying to put them down in any way, I just think Zappa was another level when you take his entire output into account.

I'm sure there are better examples of "great songs of Zappa's" but this one is one of my personal favourites. I'm not saying it's a better song than DFTR, but give this a go and see what you think:

I think BOC had their daft moments here and there - Hell Bent For Leather maybe? Godzilla even? Zappa's heading into comedy music at times though and as entertaining as it might be - I love Spinal Tap and Tenacious D are great too - I just can't take it all that seriously. Bobby Brown Goes Down's a good song, but by the same token so is the South Park soundtrack, so where do we draw the line between proper music and parody? Maybe that's just me but comedy and music are two different things. IF someone was to say Tenacious D is one of the top 20 rock records of the past 20 years they'd be laughed out of town - and that's despite there being some top musicians on there and some strong compositions.
P.S. I realise not all of Zappa's output is humorous.
 
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fyl2u

Striker
In a slightly similar vein I remember reading something about Captain Beefheart's Observatory Crest. He and his long term fans are dismissive of it because it's too conventional a song - but it's a good song.

I think BOC had their daft moments here and there - Hell Bent For Leather maybe? Godzilla even? Zappa's heading into comedy music at times though and as entertaining as it might be - I love Spinal Tap and Tenacious D are great too - I just can't take it all that seriously. Bobby Brown Goes Down's a good song, but by the same token so is the South Park soundtrack, so where do we draw the line between proper music and parody? Maybe that's just me but comedy and music are two different things. IF someone was to say Tenacious D is one of the top 20 rock records of the past 20 years they'd be laughed out of town - and that's despite there being some top musicians on there and some strong compositions.
P.S. I realise not all of Zappa's output is humorous.
Yeah it's a tricky one, there's definitely a fuzzy line in there between "comedy music" and "proper music with a comedy element". I'd definitely put Zappa firmly in the latter category though.

There is some genuinely great music out there with comedy elements though. Ninja Sex Party for one, some of Tim Minchin's stuff (although some is pure comedy, he's too good a piano player and songwriter to dismiss him IMO), and even Weird Al has had his moments ("Genius In France" is almost Zappa-esque in its epic musicality for example).

Incidentally are you familiar with Ninja Sex Party?

A lot of their early stuff is very hit and miss. Actually a lot of their early stuff is very much "miss", but these past few years they've released some cracking stuff, like these:



Comedy, certainly. But crikey, they certainly shouldn't be ignored from music conversations because of it.
 

Al

Midfield
The Electric Flag. I still have an LP bought at House of Andrews in Durham in the 1960s that enhances my life every time I put it on. They were together for less than a year, put 2 albums out, then split up amid drug-fuelled personality conflicts and aesthetic differences. Marvellous.
 

MickeyV

Midfield
Frank is a bit of an enigma and he's definitely not a band. He saw himself as a composer who used a rock band as a way to get paid through records and touring, to finance his other musical interests. 'Yellow Shark' for instance was played at the Proms, while 'Valley Girl' was a Billboard Top 40 hit, while 'Watermelon in Easter Hay' is one of the finest, most poignant guitar pieces ever recorded. Then there is this, a proto-rap written 54 years ago, and more relevant today than ever. " The 20th Century Composer Refuses to Die!"
 
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JonMc

Striker
More good songs.
Sorry but that is a bold claim to make. I've seen the rest of the thread but Zappa was an excellent songwriter and as much as I love BOC he easily matched them song for song and then some, and not just the noodling either.

I don't think risqué equates to comedy either. Stuff like Baby Don't You Want A Man Like Me? are just cracking songs, never mind the subject matter.
 
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Fats

Midfield
In a slightly similar vein I remember reading something about Captain Beefheart's Observatory Crest. He and his long term fans are dismissive of it because it's too conventional a song - but it's a good song.

I think BOC had their daft moments here and there - Hell Bent For Leather maybe? Godzilla even? Zappa's heading into comedy music at times though and as entertaining as it might be - I love Spinal Tap and Tenacious D are great too - I just can't take it all that seriously. Bobby Brown Goes Down's a good song, but by the same token so is the South Park soundtrack, so where do we draw the line between proper music and parody? Maybe that's just me but comedy and music are two different things. IF someone was to say Tenacious D is one of the top 20 rock records of the past 20 years they'd be laughed out of town - and that's despite there being some top musicians on there and some strong compositions.
P.S. I realise not all of Zappa's output is humorous.
Hell Bent for Leather was a Judas Priest track

Joe's Garage contains some belting songs. Problem with it is the whispering between every track telling the story. Get's right on your tits after a while.
 

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