The Bookkeeper of Auschwitz has died.

Discussion in 'SMB' started by The Lambton Worm, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    I think to some degree it is a valid argument.

    It isn’t a valid argument if you are one of the architects of the system or have the means to get away from the situation though.

    Do you have a link to that as I do not recall seeing that in the linked article.
     
  2. Scotsmackem

    Scotsmackem Striker

    If you ever visit Berlin then the Topography of Terror will blow your mind. Otherwise I'm sure someone off here can recommend a canny book. Your understanding of who and what the SS were is severely lacking and you're embarrassing yourself by harping on about it.
     
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  3. Gaz

    Gaz Striker

    Was he trapped into doing it, or did him and many others join knowing exactly what the SS was. Like @Tadger has said a few times now maybe you should read up on the SS.
     
  4. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    Okay, noted that I have a gap in knowledge over the specifics of the SS.

    Thanks for the pointers. Hopefully that post above has satisfied your ego as much as I think it has.

    Yep, Tadger is right there’s a gap in my knowledge regarding the SS.

    I won’t have my posts glossed over due to lacking knowledge on the specifics of the SS when that is just a small part of a bigger issue.
     
  5. Discopants91

    Discopants91 Striker

    His life was classic indoctrination but still, fucking hell.
     
  6. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    That's certainly a mixed bag. Clearly someone who was subject to intense indoctrination but when the reality of what that culminated in dawned on him, appears to have had a significant change of heart.

    Not sure how to feel about that.
     
  7. Scotsmackem

    Scotsmackem Striker

    :lol: not sure what my ego has to do with it. You're arguing with people who know what they're talking about on a subject you dont. Save your own ego and read a book on it.

    Your posts shouldn't be glossed over they should be ignored. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on ramming an opinion down others throats on a topic you have openly accepted you don't understand.
     
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  8. Tadger

    Tadger Striker

    I watched that documentary about a year before he was arrested and I remember hearing the name and I watched it again.

    He was breathtakingly arrogant in parts of that interview, especially the part where he was challenged on the murder of the Jewish children.
     
  9. MrOompapa

    MrOompapa Striker

    Exactly, the S.S was not a regular combat unit, but a fanatical ultra-racist cult.
     
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  10. Tadger

    Tadger Striker

    Bollocks.

    It was 70 years ago, not the Middle Ages.
     
  11. Discopants91

    Discopants91 Striker

    I'm sure a lot of criminals feel regret but they still have to answer for it.

    It's not even a case of people getting the pitchforks out, he was proved guilty.

    There's a sickening coldness about him, especially the matter of fact way he spoke in court.
     
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  12. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    But I'm not really arguing over who or what the SS are though. I'm discussing whether or not what he did should be considered a war crime or whether this man was actually genocidal or just part of the machine.

    I'm not insistent on ramming any opinion down anyone's throat. It's a discussion. I'm discussing. If you'd read the thread rather than jumped in, perhaps you'd have known that.

    He was indeed found guilty, yes.

    I think this case is a little different from a typical person committing a crime though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  13. Scotsmackem

    Scotsmackem Striker

    I've read the whole thread, you're doing what you do alot on here. Taking a stubborn stance based on a limited understanding of the facts.

    Who and what the SS were and why people joined them is absolutely key to the discussion here. You jumped in with 2 feet on if he's a war criminal, or not because he was just a normal bloke who wanted a nice job in the SS without knowing what he was getting into.
     
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  14. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    I'm not taking a stubborn stance at all. I am entirely open to having my opinion changed.

    @Tadger, @MrOompapa and @Cockney Mackem have made pleasant and informed posts that have allowed me to better understand their position and between first reading and now, I feel like their knowledge can or could influence my opinion.

    Whereas on the other hand, you just jumped in like a bellend. Nothing wrong with that, I've done it myself, but it doesn't make you any less of one.
     
    Tadger likes this.
  15. Bob Fleming

    Bob Fleming Striker

    Ah bless he's a nice old man now we won't put him on trial to determine if he played a part in the death of several million people.
     
  16. Tadger

    Tadger Striker

    But who and what the SS were is integral to the whole debate around Oskar Gröning, his arrest and his conviction.
     
  17. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    Yes, I accept that the nature of the SS is more important to the discussion than I originally believed.
     
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  18. Tadger

    Tadger Striker

    I understand the position you’re taking; it is important to take into account the individual, their motivations and circumstances in these kinds of cases.

    In this particularly grim part of European history though, the sheer scale of the crimes committed by the Third Reich required a well oiled machine and practically everyone in that machine had to be pretty enthusiastic about the whole thing.
     
    Frijj likes this.
  19. Frijj

    Frijj Striker

    Yes, I think you're right. You don't join the SS without knowing its ethos. I mistakenly lumped it in with the rest of the army when you and others are quite right about what it is. Ah well. You live and learn!
     
    Tadger likes this.
  20. Tadger

    Tadger Striker

    Everyday’s a school day and all that.
     
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