Teachers and workloads

The Muffin Man said:
This is not the picture nationally hence why the Dfed are now panicking as they have been unable to get enough people into training for the last 6 years and teachers are leaving in their droves.

Look on this thread, there are lots of former teachers who have left, mostly because of stress and burnout.

As for the private sector comment its bollocks, I did 15 years in the private sector before teaching and worked really long hours......There is a huge difference between a 14 hour day in a sales office where I can get a cuppa, go to the toilet, have a lunch break, deal with my sales and admin then go home and stop worrying about work and being responsible for 100s of kids every day and planning and delivering 6 hours of public presentations while half the class are desperately trying to heckle you and are actively disrupting what you are doing, while others are suffering with ADHD, autism, MLD, dyslexia etc.......Your lack of understanding is exactly why the general public struggle to understand the issues.

Spend a year in a school, then come back to tell me about how private sector jobs are stressful, you literally havent got a clue until you have done it.

No doubt you will continue to stick to your point of view and deny the reality of what is happening, then be shocked when you find your child is being taught GCSE Maths by a PE teacher that has no qualification in Maths.

We are beyond the point of just pointing out what is happening now, people are experiencing this on a massive scale, just like the begging letters from school to fund basics as they have no money.



How do you manage to get away with this? Not criticising you but do you not have constant book checking done by heads of depts and SMT? What happens when OFSTED rock up and they find books not properly marked which they cant be if you are not working at home?
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Why do you assume that they aren't 'properly' marked? The only Ofsted directive relating to marking and feedback is that it is accessible and effective for the child. In terms of books, Ofsted basically look for progress over time rather than drill down into your marking policy. If it's working it will be evident in the progress they see in a child's book. I mark for the kids, not SMT. Our head has a track record of taking schools from measures to Outstanding (not that we should read too much into these terms) and this has been his mantra throughout so I'm more than happy to go along with it.

I stay at school until 6 each day marking my books 'properly' and getting prepped for the next day. Experience has taught me to prioritise so anything that doesn't get done by then is left until the next day with some exceptions - staff meeting nights and CPD nights being examples. My planning is basic and for me to follow and takes one afternoon a week in PPA time to complete (Ofsted don't look at planning either by the way). Once I get home my time with my kids is exactly that and I enjoy 90% of my weekends as my own time. I'll usually switch on the lap top on either a Saturday morning or a Sunday night and fine tune bits and pieces for Monday and maybe do some data or reporting for SMT where required.

This is sadly a rarity in the schools I've worked in to date though and its all driven, as you suggest, by SMT.

I've only been through 2 Ofsted inspections so far in my career but not once have my books been pulled as inadequate. I've only been observed teaching by one inspector but that came out as good with outstanding features so although I'm not the best teacher in the world or even the school I have confidence in my own ability and am glad that I can be myself in my approach.

I think your experience and some of my own negative experiences so far to date is endemic of the pressures put on schools to 'achieve' which filters down from SMT to teaching staff. The fear of failure is so damaging but it is the reality unfortunately.

mogget said:
In terms of marking I guess it depends on what subject he teaches. I could finish maths really quickly but topic (english) takes forever.
I never take books home however I'm in a 5 form entry so we have to do a lot less planning and I normally plan at home and use PPA to mark as well as staying after school for a few hours every night.
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My maths is marked 'live' in lessons. Immediate feedback rather than give them a day to forget what you are referring to. An Ofsted favourite apparently and an immense time saver.
 
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chillikebab said:
Why do you assume that they aren't 'properly' marked? The only Ofsted directive relating to marking and feedback is that it is accessible and effective for the child. In terms of books, Ofsted basically look for progress over time rather than drill down into your marking policy. If it's working it will be evident in the progress they see in a child's book. I mark for the kids, not SMT. Our head has a track record of taking schools from measures to Outstanding (not that we should read too much into these terms) and this has been his mantra throughout so I'm more than happy to go along with it.

I stay at school until 6 each day marking my books 'properly' and getting prepped for the next day. Experience has taught me to prioritise so anything that doesn't get done by then is left until the next day with some exceptions - staff meeting nights and CPD nights being examples. My planning is basic and for me to follow and takes one afternoon a week in PPA time to complete (Ofsted don't look at planning either by the way). Once I get home my time with my kids is exactly that and I enjoy 90% of my weekends as my own time. I'll usually switch on the lap top on either a Saturday morning or a Sunday night and fine tune bits and pieces for Monday and maybe do some data or reporting for SMT where required.

This is sadly a rarity in the schools I've worked in to date though and its all driven, as you suggest, by SMT.

I've only been through 2 Ofsted inspections so far in my career but not once have my books been pulled as inadequate. I've only been observed teaching by one inspector but that came out as good with outstanding features so although I'm not the best teacher in the world or even the school I have confidence in my own ability and am glad that I can be myself in my approach.

I think your experience and some of my own negative experiences so far to date is endemic of the pressures put on schools to 'achieve' which filters down from SMT to teaching staff. The fear of failure is so damaging but it is the reality unfortunately.


My maths is marked 'live' in lessons. Immediate feedback rather than give them a day to forget what you are referring to. An Ofsted favourite apparently and an immense time saver.
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Yeah I try and do similar, we also do a lot of self assessment and go over anything they get wrong. I think its a real time saver and helps the kids
 
My daughter (no) did a degree in biomedical science, then she decided she wanted to teach so did her teaching degree.

She finished her degree, but even before the end of her course she’d realised it wasn’t for her. Her teaching placement gave her enough of a taste to show her how bad it can be. She works at the land registry in Durham now! Doing very well and loving it. She can go home and switch off. Her own time is entirely hers.

Anyone taking a pop at teachers needs to walk a mile in their shoes. It’s not something most people could do as a career. It’s a calling, a lifestyle, not just a job.
 
The Muffin Man said:
As for the private sector comment its bollocks, I did 15 years in the private sector before teaching and worked really long hours......There is a huge difference between a 14 hour day in a sales office where I can get a cuppa, go to the toilet, have a lunch break, deal with my sales and admin then go home and stop worrying about work and being responsible for 100s of kids every day and planning and delivering 6 hours of public presentations while half the class are desperately trying to heckle you and are actively disrupting what you are doing, while others are suffering with ADHD, autism, MLD, dyslexia etc.......Your lack of understanding is exactly why the general public struggle to understand the issues.
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Utter rubbish. You make one comparison between Teaching and the private sector, but ignore the countless other roles that are busy, stressful, underpaid and almost impossible to do - I speak from personal experience
You are a teacher, so naturally you defend the role of a teacher. I have held roles in the public and private sector, I have held roles where we have been criminally understaffed, woefully under-prepared, with pressure on financial and performance targets, with bullies in charge demanding the impossible. I have had months without sleeping, and it has badly affected by home life

Teachers do not hold the monopoly on difficult jobs
 
TopCat said:
Utter rubbish. You make one comparison between Teaching and the private sector, but ignore the countless other roles that are busy, stressful, underpaid and almost impossible to do - I speak from personal experience
You are a teacher, so naturally you defend the role of a teacher. I have held roles in the public and private sector, I have held roles where we have been criminally understaffed, woefully under-prepared, with pressure on financial and performance targets, with bullies in charge demanding the impossible. I have had months without sleeping, and it has badly affected by home life

Teachers do not hold the monopoly on difficult jobs
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Lazy bastards
 
I'm getting out - done supply for the last few years through choice after the job drove me to a nervous breakdown from which I've never fully recovered. I love the front of class bit of the job - love working through a lesson leading the kids to the moment where the penny visibly drops... but supply's dead as a way of making a living these days as budgets are so tight, and the workload is utterly utterly horrific. I've just got accepted onto a uni course to retrain (going into speech therapy is the long term plan). The load in terms of producing data for the sake of producing data has got totally out of control even in the last few years - despite whatever Ofsted say.

To give some example of how stupid it is - I'm also a school governor for my kids' school and the Head was at her desk, sending emails out to us this morning (not from her phone - these are her normal working hours) at 6.45 on a morning in the middle of the school holidays - we've told her to bloody sod off home at a sensible hour on numerous occasions in the past! Most of the time if you're dropping kids off for breakfast club at like 7.15 in the morning the bulk of the teaching staff are there already and their cars are often still there at like 6.30 on an evening if you drive past school - it's ridiculous.

I'll always be a huge defender of teachers because the job can be absolutely gruelling - especially now budgets are so tight that TA numbers have been completely destroyed so you're left in a situation like the one I was in a few weeks ago - 2 children with severe SEN which can manifest itself in terms of smashing up the classroom (we got through a day without this which is apparently rare), 7 kids seeing speech and language therapy (which it's nigh on impossible to get referrals through for these days), and about half the class on the special needs register for some kind of learning or behavioural need... and no TA. Doing that on supply when you're not known to the kids takes some bloody behaviour management (I'm seriously f***ing good in terms of supply teachers thankfully). And yes there are a few utterly shameful teachers out there who do do the bare minimum and short change the kids - we've got one for one of my own kids this year and I'm forever having to pick up the pieces at home - but they're a real minority.
 
Running on goodwill is a feature of the public sector, most hospitals, schools etc would be closed within weeks if people worked what they are paid to do.

Although I am sure there are plenty of areas where people are getting paid too much for not a lot.
 
I’m training to be a secondary teacher now and I’m finding it extremely hard. What I’ve found so far is that a lot of teachers are married to the job. They leave work, go home and work at home often until 1am and are up at 6am. For me that’s meant not seeing much of my Mrs (trust me you wouldn’t want to) and kids, getting no free time to do anything and being stressed to bits as there is so much to consider (ie teacher standards)

Teaching itself is absolutely ridiculous. You’re not a teacher anymore, you are a “facilitator of learning”. Differentiation (ie teaching to all levels) does not work, students should be put into sets based on ability and behaviour. This means marking and planning takes way too long and having to tailor everything to every student is time consuming and ultimately pointless as most of them don’t give a shit.

Passive disengagement is shocking and most kids just don’t seem to want to learn. Discipline is generally shocking, no respect for teachers at all and teachers where I am are persuaded not to shout at students in case of a “stand off” - meaning the students win.

I’m in two minds whether or not to walk away now. Financially I’m okay and have a little bit of money behind me to train for something. I suppose under a labour government things would improve drastically but I’m thinking I’ve made the wrong career choice.

Funnily enough me and our boy (who is doing primary) got talking to these two lasses from London on the underground back from the Trafalgar Square incident at 4am in the morning and they were both trainee teachers too. The exact same sentiments were echoed however they said everyone down there who is training to be a teacher landed jobs immediately. They are in an extreme shortage in the London area apparently.
 
rey mysterio said:
I’m training to be a secondary teacher now and I’m finding it extremely hard. What I’ve found so far is that a lot of teachers are married to the job. They leave work, go home and work at home often until 1am and are up at 6am. For me that’s meant not seeing much of my Mrs (trust me you wouldn’t want to) and kids, getting no free time to do anything and being stressed to bits as there is so much to consider (ie teacher standards)

Teaching itself is absolutely ridiculous. You’re not a teacher anymore, you are a “facilitator of learning”. Differentiation (ie teaching to all levels) does not work, students should be put into sets based on ability and behaviour. This means marking and planning takes way too long and having to tailor everything to every student is time consuming and ultimately pointless as most of them don’t give a shit.

Passive disengagement is shocking and most kids just don’t seem to want to learn. Discipline is generally shocking, no respect for teachers at all and teachers where I am are persuaded not to shout at students in case of a “stand off” - meaning the students win.

I’m in two minds whether or not to walk away now. Financially I’m okay and have a little bit of money behind me to train for something. I suppose under a labour government things would improve drastically but I’m thinking I’ve made the wrong career choice.

Funnily enough me and our boy (who is doing primary) got talking to these two lasses from London on the underground back from the Trafalgar Square incident at 4am in the morning and they were both trainee teachers too. The exact same sentiments were echoed however they said everyone down there who is training to be a teacher landed jobs immediately. They are in an extreme shortage in the London area apparently.
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Funny enough I start training in September for secondary history down in York, not going to lie the work load does sound daunting, but I've always wanted to do it, just thought I needed to mature a bit instead of jumping straight in from graduation. Hoping that the new setting helps keep me fairly engaged as I have heard the combination of lesson planning, marking, and assignments can get ridiculously tough/tedious very quickly.

I've also heard that I'd get a job in the London area if I passed, but that idea is sort of off putting, I lived there on and off as a bairn and didn't particularly like it
 
gonzalo said:
Funny enough I start training in September for secondary history down in York, not going to lie the work load does sound daunting, but I've always wanted to do it, just thought I needed to mature a bit instead of jumping straight in from graduation. Hoping that the new setting helps keep me fairly engaged as I have heard the combination of lesson planning, marking, and assignments can get ridiculously tough/tedious very quickly.

I've also heard that I'd get a job in the London area if I passed, but that idea is sort of off putting, I lived there on and off as a bairn and didn't particularly like it
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Good luck with it mate. If you’re 100% committed and passionate about it then you’re halfway there already. The key is to keep on top of everything. As soon as you fall behind then it’s panic stations. I just keep thinking that’s it’s a square peg in a round hole for me and I’m just not cut out for it. The Mrs is doing a nursing degree and my kids are 5 and 4 - I’ve got grandparents to help out but ultimately the strain it’s placing on us as a family is enormous and I’ve got to consider if it’s worth it and even if I do get through my PGCE am I even going to go into teaching.

The academic side of it is great though and you do learn a lot. I’m geography (what my degree is in) but always preferred history ever since I was about four years old. I taught a bit of history at my first placement last year and loved it. Used to stick horrible histories on and kids love those videos. Was way better than teaching kids about clarts :lol:
 
rey mysterio said:
I’m training to be a secondary teacher now and I’m finding it extremely hard. What I’ve found so far is that a lot of teachers are married to the job. They leave work, go home and work at home often until 1am and are up at 6am. For me that’s meant not seeing much of my Mrs (trust me you wouldn’t want to) and kids, getting no free time to do anything and being stressed to bits as there is so much to consider (ie teacher standards)

Teaching itself is absolutely ridiculous. You’re not a teacher anymore, you are a “facilitator of learning”. Differentiation (ie teaching to all levels) does not work, students should be put into sets based on ability and behaviour. This means marking and planning takes way too long and having to tailor everything to every student is time consuming and ultimately pointless as most of them don’t give a shit.

Passive disengagement is shocking and most kids just don’t seem to want to learn. Discipline is generally shocking, no respect for teachers at all and teachers where I am are persuaded not to shout at students in case of a “stand off” - meaning the students win.

I’m in two minds whether or not to walk away now. Financially I’m okay and have a little bit of money behind me to train for something. I suppose under a labour government things would improve drastically but I’m thinking I’ve made the wrong career choice.

Funnily enough me and our boy (who is doing primary) got talking to these two lasses from London on the underground back from the Trafalgar Square incident at 4am in the morning and they were both trainee teachers too. The exact same sentiments were echoed however they said everyone down there who is training to be a teacher landed jobs immediately. They are in an extreme shortage in the London area apparently.
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A guy on here posted that the pupils are in sets with compatible levels.
 
rey mysterio said:
Good luck with it mate. If you’re 100% committed and passionate about it then you’re halfway there already. The key is to keep on top of everything. As soon as you fall behind then it’s panic stations. I just keep thinking that’s it’s a square peg in a round hole for me and I’m just not cut out for it. The Mrs is doing a nursing degree and my kids are 5 and 4 - I’ve got grandparents to help out but ultimately the strain it’s placing on us as a family is enormous and I’ve got to consider if it’s worth it and even if I do get through my PGCE am I even going to go into teaching.

The academic side of it is great though and you do learn a lot. I’m geography (what my degree is in) but always preferred history ever since I was about four years old. I taught a bit of history at my first placement last year and loved it. Used to stick horrible histories on and kids love those videos. Was way better than teaching kids about clarts :lol:
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Funny enough on your last point, I worked some voluntary placements at Shotton Hall for a couple of month, and some of the curriculum was blowing my mind. The crime and punishment 1300-1900 module seemed unnecessarily large and some of the revision the pupils were doing really left me stumped. Some groups were asking me questions then I'd walk to another group, find the answer out from them, then return as if I'd just conjured the answer from memory :lol:
 
chillikebab said:
Why do you assume that they aren't 'properly' marked? The only Ofsted directive relating to marking and feedback is that it is accessible and effective for the child. In terms of books, Ofsted basically look for progress over time rather than drill down into your marking policy. If it's working it will be evident in the progress they see in a child's book. I mark for the kids, not SMT. Our head has a track record of taking schools from measures to Outstanding (not that we should read too much into these terms) and this has been his mantra throughout so I'm more than happy to go along with it.

I stay at school until 6 each day marking my books 'properly' and getting prepped for the next day. Experience has taught me to prioritise so anything that doesn't get done by then is left until the next day with some exceptions - staff meeting nights and CPD nights being examples. My planning is basic and for me to follow and takes one afternoon a week in PPA time to complete (Ofsted don't look at planning either by the way). Once I get home my time with my kids is exactly that and I enjoy 90% of my weekends as my own time. I'll usually switch on the lap top on either a Saturday morning or a Sunday night and fine tune bits and pieces for Monday and maybe do some data or reporting for SMT where required.

This is sadly a rarity in the schools I've worked in to date though and its all driven, as you suggest, by SMT.

I've only been through 2 Ofsted inspections so far in my career but not once have my books been pulled as inadequate. I've only been observed teaching by one inspector but that came out as good with outstanding features so although I'm not the best teacher in the world or even the school I have confidence in my own ability and am glad that I can be myself in my approach.

I think your experience and some of my own negative experiences so far to date is endemic of the pressures put on schools to 'achieve' which filters down from SMT to teaching staff. The fear of failure is so damaging but it is the reality unfortunately.


My maths is marked 'live' in lessons. Immediate feedback rather than give them a day to forget what you are referring to. An Ofsted favourite apparently and an immense time saver.
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Live marking is now established policy in my school. I love it and the kids love it. We are banned from taking books home! Seriously!!
 

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