Teachers and workloads

[TopCat]

For the amount that they have to do I’d say that they aren’t paid anywhere near enough money.

From personal experience, I don't see it being any different to a management or contract job in the private sector. I work 9-10 hours a day, 48 weeks a years for a decent wedge. The wife works 11-12 hours a day, 39 weeks a year for a decent wedge. I don't see a massive difference in the time we spend working whether that is at home or in the office/school

Good jobs, with good wages come with the caveat that means it will be long hours/stressful (potentially)/heavy workloads etc etc
For those who aren't up for that, there are plenty of lower paid, less demanding jobs about

many of us are giving it up and would happily work in Mcdonalds before going back, why is that?

They aren't doing that though are they? I know around 20 teachers in my circle of friends/acquaintances - in all of those years, only 2 have given up teaching and both are in highly paid, stressful private sector jobs. None of my wife's colleagues have given up teaching, they all moan about it 24/7 but they are all still there because a) they want to teach, b) the money is good and c) the holidays are essential when you have your own kids

 

[DaveI]

the juice is worth the squeeze.

‘kin hell Barry Homeowner, I’ve not heard that one before.

 

[Harry Angstrom]

I went into teaching in my early 30s, I worked in a variety of jobs before that, I have a lot of work experience to compare it to.



A normal day for me was bed at midnight and up marking by 5.30am. Home at 3.30pm, feed my own kids and get them to bed then work from 8ish to midnight and round and round we go.

More fool you and more fool everyone who has to do this to do a job.

I didn't last long like. Working 7-7 in school then get home and regularly 8-midnight. Plus full days on a weekend. I had 22 lessons per week and was expected to do detailed 1000 word lesson plans for every lesson. Really unsustainable and plenty of people who I qualified with soon fucked off, like me. Not worth the stress and time for the reward.

22,000 words a week. When did you think that was unreasonable?

 

[MackneyHackem]

I didn't last long like. Working 7-7 in school then get home and regularly 8-midnight. Plus full days on a weekend. I had 22 lessons per week and was expected to do detailed 1000 word lesson plans for every lesson. Really unsustainable and plenty of people who I qualified with soon fucked off, like me. Not worth the stress and time for the reward.

One THOUSAND words? That's loads of words that like. Were they long ones or short ones?

 

[Chappers]

It's a tough job, but it's bloody well paid and has excellent holidays.
For those who complain about it, go work in Tesco

This. The lack of respect for teachers on here always amazes me. I've been in some schools and seen the way some kids go on and the teachers who have to deal with these kids, deserve their money doubled

 

[Harry Angstrom]

One THOUSAND words? That's loads of words that like. Were they long ones or short ones?

I think some of them must have got the wrong end of the stick and were frightened to ask questions?

Writing 22,000 words of quality is a mammoth task. No matter what the subject.

I assume 19,500 would be cut n pasted.

 

[japs]

100% this, you could in theory take every holiday off, the problem is that they are used to catch up with the backlog of stuff that cant be fitted into a normal 70 hour week. So in reality what you do is work through the hols, clear the decks so that you can start again up to date.

The biggest fear of course is getting properly ill so you cant actually work. How many jobs do you get held responsible for what happens at work when you are not even there? Most teacher turn up to work sick as going into work ill is actually easier than being off.....Problem is you end up so ill you are eventually forced off or send you home and then when you pass your illness on to kids in your classes because you were leant on to turn up ill, you get hammered cause their attendance is poor.

To be fair, loads of people are accountable when they are off sick. There may not be the level of scrutiny, but things have to continue and if it doesn't work or there are issues.....they land back with the person in charge.

 

[TopCat]

This. The lack of respect for teachers on here always amazes me. I've been in some schools and seen the way some kids go on and the teachers who have to deal with these kids, deserve their money doubled

I don't have a lack of respect for teachers, I just don't get the constant moaning - no-one is forcing them to do the job the do, there are hundreds of other jobs out there. If it was that bad they'd quit.
In actual fact, the day to day life of a teacher is largely influenced byy the culture of the school and the way the school is managed by the Head Teacher. My wife's place is a nightmare - the head is weak and incompetent so she ofte throws her staff under the bus when things go wrong and has numerous grievances logged against her. The school my kids go to is the opposite - a Head Teacher who is able to mange the kids, the staff and the Governers effectively and allows his teachers to be grown ups - often Trainng Days are given back to the teachers as days off to reward them for hard work, or they can take their PPA at home. Small touches like that.
In that respect, it's like any other workplace.

As for the comment about the way the kids go on at teachers, people who believe that should try working with the general public. I've been threatened, screamed at and once someone spat in my face.....all because a train was late.

 

[chillikebab]

I love being a teacher. As someone who has worked in a variety of sectors and owned my own business I do think that sometimes the workload is over exaggerated. However, it is a very tough job although no tougher than a so many other roles out there.

The issue often lies with the powers that be who constantly move the goal posts and put unnecessary pressure on the teachers at the coal face. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be myself as a teacher and teach through my own life experiences as my school has a great head who focuses heavily on creative teaching and learning which really suits me (and probably the majority of pupils and teachers out there). Unfortunately this isn't the case for many. Nurses, doctors and others in the public sector will always have more public sympathy and I've grown to accept that. I think we get well paid and have fantastic holidays but it's always funny to see that being the first thing people jump on when reports like this are published.

 

[Deleted member 1358]

I love being a teacher. As someone who has worked in a variety of sectors and owned my own business I do think that sometimes the workload is over exaggerated. However, it is a very tough job although no tougher than a so many other roles out there.

The issue often lies with the powers that be who constantly move the goal posts and put unnecessary pressure on the teachers at the coal face. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be myself as a teacher and teach through my own life experiences as my school has a great head who focuses heavily on creative teaching and learning which really suits me (and probably the majority of pupils and teachers out there). Unfortunately this isn't the case for many. Nurses, doctors and others in the public sector will always have more public sympathy and I've grown to accept that. I think we get well paid and have fantastic holidays but it's always funny to see that being the first thing people jump on when reports like this are published.

Nice post. I liked it.

Sometimes it is the post code lottery around standards in teaching and what is good and what is bad in a school.

Unfortunately it is often down to finances but what is often overlooked is underperformance and capability throughout the teaching staff and the inbred culture that exists

Personally I am in favour of testing pupils as we do as I see no other measure to improve standards in teaching.

 

[chillikebab]

Nice post. I liked it.

Sometimes it is the post code lottery around standards in teaching and what is good and what is bad in a school.

Unfortunately it is often down to finances but what is often overlooked is underperformance and capability throughout the teaching staff and the inbred culture that exists

Personally I am in favour of testing pupils as we do as I see no other measure to improve standards in teaching.

Agreed. No teacher likes SATS really but they are really the only way to prove that the outcomes that a child is required to have hit throughout their primary years have been achieved. We could solely use teacher judgements but then the argument of subjectivity will cloud everything. The issues with testing in year 11 are no different in any other age group through to uni degrees. The difference being that a child who appears to be a high attainer or a low attainer at the end of year 6 won't find that their lives and future careers appear to be defined by the SATS results unlike say GCSE or A Levels (although I do wish some parents would see this).

As I mentioned I have been around the block in terms of careers and came into teaching late so I'm able to cross reference the issues I currently face against these experiences and I don't feel that the workload is any more than someone in any other environment where accountability is the overriding element. I also remember driving around in the snow and rain on Friday nights doing estimates when I had my own firm. If I compared that to sitting in the house marking a few books with a glass of wine in the warmth I know what I'd rather be doing.

Not all new teachers have this though and I do feel that, although we would all claim to be entering a profession with our eyes open, this is often not the case and the blame in this case can sometimes be pointed towards training providers.

 

[Madchester Mackem]

I honestly dont know how he gets away with it though, if the marking is not done then you are banged on competency within weeks??

So as teachers are promoted, do they lose empathy for what were their peers? Or does pressure just come down from elsewhere? The Head internally and above that LA?

Genuine question, I just wondered as typically (with few exceptions as is life) humans do display a level of empathy to one another.

 

[Giddup Sausage!]

Posted this on previous threads like these but my other half (no) is a teacher and works herself into the ground trying to keep her head above water. Really is WAY too much they expect them to do now. Wake at 6 and get ready for school, work till 6 (when they are kicked out) and then back home to do more work most nights. Weekends comprise of usually an hour or two Saturday combined with a full day Sunday doing work for the week coming.

Add to that they seem to be doing observations and allsorts every f***ing month which adds even more work to the workload.

"Holidays", which the children on here keep bleating on about them having fuck tons of, tends to be used working and doing reports with a few weeks to relax and hopefully get a holiday in.

Until someone has been a teacher, or lived with one, they don't have a clue.

Mind, we also know a teacher who gets all the benefits but does fuck all. So yes, there are some teachers out there that play the system (like all jobs) and don't give 2 fucks about the progression of the children.

 

[chillikebab]

Posted this on previous threads like these but my other half (no) is a teacher and works herself into the ground trying to keep her head above water. Really is WAY too much they expect them to do now. Wake at 6 and get ready for school, work till 6 (when they are kicked out) and then back home to do more work most nights. Weekends comprise of usually an hour or two Saturday combined with a full day Sunday doing work for the week coming.

Add to that they seem to be doing observations and allsorts every f***ing month which adds even more work to the workload.

"Holidays", which the children on here keep bleating on about them having fuck tons of, tends to be used working and doing reports with a few weeks to relax and hopefully get a holiday in.

Until someone has been a teacher, or lived with one, they don't have a clue.

Mind, we also know a teacher who gets all the benefits but does fuck all. So yes, there are some teachers out there that play the system (like all jobs) and don't give 2 fucks about the progression of the children.

Does she enjoy the role?

 

[Giddup Sausage!]

Does she enjoy the role?

She loves the teaching part of it (she always says it doesn't feel like a job when she is actually in class) and having the children succeed and having that satisfaction of seeing them do so. The workload behind all of that gets a bit too much though.

 

[Marcosplace]

I’ve been a teacher for 25 years. Still love it.

It’s hard for young teachers learning their trade though. They often have a number of hurdles in their way.

I now know how to handle work loads - whilst ensuring kids enjoy and make progress. I don’t feel pressure that often I’m glad to say, but that only comes from experience and realistic expectations of myself.

I’ve seen many young teachers leave the profession - some brilliant ones too. I’ve also noticed the same schools constantly searching for applications to fill posts. Something has to change.

Corbyn is right to scrap SATs for primaries. Secondary schools use this data lightly anyway. Better for secondary schools to assess over Y7. Progress from
SATs to GCSE is often floored because of many factors.

 

[chillikebab]

She loves the teaching part of it (she always says it doesn't feel like a job when she is actually in class) and having the children succeed and having that satisfaction of seeing them do so. The workload behind all of that gets a bit too much though.

That's the thing like. It's a lifestyle rather than a job and a lot of people struggle with that aspect of it. I rarely bring books home now and only do a few hours extra on a weekend but that's just how my school operates. Great seeing the kids thrive and I love being able to teach with the energy required to engage 20+ kids all day. Wasn't always like this though. Could have walked from the job a couple of years ago but found a school that worked for me. It's a 2 way street and a lot of people don't always acknowledge that. Can't confidently get the best out of the kids if you can't give them the best of yourself. No good burning out and anyone who feels like walking away needs to try a different setting before throwing in the towel. If that still doesn't work then maybe it's just not the role for them.

I still find the overall level of respect that teachers get laughable. Workload or no workload, pressure or no pressure, the haters need to ask themselves whether they'd be prepared to look after up to 30 of other people's kids 5 days a week. Not that I give a crap what people think of me like. I get 13 weeks holiday a year so I get to cash in my over time and have guaranteed time off at the same time as my own kids.

 

[The Muffin Man]

From personal experience, I don't see it being any different to a management or contract job in the private sector. I work 9-10 hours a day, 48 weeks a years for a decent wedge. The wife works 11-12 hours a day, 39 weeks a year for a decent wedge. I don't see a massive difference in the time we spend working whether that is at home or in the office/school

Good jobs, with good wages come with the caveat that means it will be long hours/stressful (potentially)/heavy workloads etc etc
For those who aren't up for that, there are plenty of lower paid, less demanding jobs about



They aren't doing that though are they? I know around 20 teachers in my circle of friends/acquaintances - in all of those years, only 2 have given up teaching and both are in highly paid, stressful private sector jobs. None of my wife's colleagues have given up teaching, they all moan about it 24/7 but they are all still there because a) they want to teach, b) the money is good and c) the holidays are essential when you have your own kids

This is not the picture nationally hence why the Dfed are now panicking as they have been unable to get enough people into training for the last 6 years and teachers are leaving in their droves.

Look on this thread, there are lots of former teachers who have left, mostly because of stress and burnout.

As for the private sector comment its bollocks, I did 15 years in the private sector before teaching and worked really long hours......There is a huge difference between a 14 hour day in a sales office where I can get a cuppa, go to the toilet, have a lunch break, deal with my sales and admin then go home and stop worrying about work and being responsible for 100s of kids every day and planning and delivering 6 hours of public presentations while half the class are desperately trying to heckle you and are actively disrupting what you are doing, while others are suffering with ADHD, autism, MLD, dyslexia etc.......Your lack of understanding is exactly why the general public struggle to understand the issues.

Spend a year in a school, then come back to tell me about how private sector jobs are stressful, you literally havent got a clue until you have done it.

No doubt you will continue to stick to your point of view and deny the reality of what is happening, then be shocked when you find your child is being taught GCSE Maths by a PE teacher that has no qualification in Maths.

We are beyond the point of just pointing out what is happening now, people are experiencing this on a massive scale, just like the begging letters from school to fund basics as they have no money.

That's the thing like. It's a lifestyle rather than a job and a lot of people struggle with that aspect of it. I rarely bring books home now and only do a few hours extra on a weekend but that's just how my school operates. Great seeing the kids thrive and I love being able to teach with the energy required to engage 20+ kids all day. Wasn't always like this though. Could have walked from the job a couple of years ago but found a school that worked for me. It's a 2 way street and a lot of people don't always acknowledge that. Can't confidently get the best out of the kids if you can't give them the best of yourself. No good burning out and anyone who feels like walking away needs to try a different setting before throwing in the towel. If that still doesn't work then maybe it's just not the role for them.

I still find the overall level of respect that teachers get laughable. Workload or no workload, pressure or no pressure, the haters need to ask themselves whether they'd be prepared to look after up to 30 of other people's kids 5 days a week. Not that I give a crap what people think of me like. I get 13 weeks holiday a year so I get to cash in my over time and have guaranteed time off at the same time as my own kids.

How do you manage to get away with this? Not criticising you but do you not have constant book checking done by heads of depts and SMT? What happens when OFSTED rock up and they find books not properly marked which they cant be if you are not working at home?

 

[mogget]

This is not the picture nationally hence why the Dfed are now panicking as they have been unable to get enough people into training for the last 6 years and teachers are leaving in their droves.

Look on this thread, there are lots of former teachers who have left, mostly because of stress and burnout.

As for the private sector comment its bollocks, I did 15 years in the private sector before teaching and worked really long hours......There is a huge difference between a 14 hour day in a sales office where I can get a cuppa, go to the toilet, have a lunch break, deal with my sales and admin then go home and stop worrying about work and being responsible for 100s of kids every day and planning and delivering 6 hours of public presentations while half the class are desperately trying to heckle you and are actively disrupting what you are doing, while others are suffering with ADHD, autism, MLD, dyslexia etc.......Your lack of understanding is exactly why the general public struggle to understand the issues.

Spend a year in a school, then come back to tell me about how private sector jobs are stressful, you literally havent got a clue until you have done it.

No doubt you will continue to stick to your point of view and deny the reality of what is happening, then be shocked when you find your child is being taught GCSE Maths by a PE teacher that has no qualification in Maths.

We are beyond the point of just pointing out what is happening now, people are experiencing this on a massive scale, just like the begging letters from school to fund basics as they have no money.



How do you manage to get away with this? Not criticising you but do you not have constant book checking done by heads of depts and SMT? What happens when OFSTED rock up and they find books not properly marked which they cant be if you are not working at home?

In terms of marking I guess it depends on what subject he teaches. I could finish maths really quickly but topic (english) takes forever.
I never take books home however I'm in a 5 form entry so we have to do a lot less planning and I normally plan at home and use PPA to mark as well as staying after school for a few hours every night.

 

[japs]

Posted this on previous threads like these but my other half (no) is a teacher and works herself into the ground trying to keep her head above water. Really is WAY too much they expect them to do now. Wake at 6 and get ready for school, work till 6 (when they are kicked out) and then back home to do more work most nights. Weekends comprise of usually an hour or two Saturday combined with a full day Sunday doing work for the week coming.

Add to that they seem to be doing observations and allsorts every f***ing month which adds even more work to the workload.

"Holidays", which the children on here keep bleating on about them having fuck tons of, tends to be used working and doing reports with a few weeks to relax and hopefully get a holiday in.

Until someone has been a teacher, or lived with one, they don't have a clue.

Mind, we also know a teacher who gets all the benefits but does fuck all. So yes, there are some teachers out there that play the system (like all jobs) and don't give 2 fucks about the progression of the children.

I do have a lot of respect for teachers, but I'd suggest thinking long and hard if that was me. No one will ever wish they spent more time at work.