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Takeover News/Rumours

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Redby-lad said:
I think this paints a somewhat cuddly picture of Short mind. Not sure he wrote off hundreds of millions. It was between 100-150m wasn't it? Given what he does to earn a crust it would've looked pretty catastrophic to have the financial ruin of Sunderland AFC on his CV especially having taking in nearly a billion of Premier League cash in his time. He saved a lot of face by writing it off. He was also seemingly happy to take our parachute payments to mitigate his losses...parachute payments that are designed to help with the considerable mess he left us in with legacy contracts etc. And as you said he left us with the the worst owners in our entire history.
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Closer to £200m. About 20% of his net worth.
 

Secret Visage said:
Some people clearly do, one has been evidenced on here, I believe.

Nice of you to admit you were wrong.....
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Like I said its been done to death, that's 1 person, doesn't mean its the same for all of them. I know people who have kids in the academy some with very positive comments and some with not so positive comments. So have no idea what to think about it
 
admwil said:
From May 2020

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I don't know if a clubs mentioned in that article but the Shields gazette have something from the French newspaper that it's Uruguayan premier league Club Athletico River plate there looking at.
 
Redby-lad said:
I think this paints a somewhat cuddly picture of Short mind. Not sure he wrote off hundreds of millions. It was between 100-150m wasn't it? Given what he does to earn a crust it would've looked pretty catastrophic to have the financial ruin of Sunderland AFC on his CV especially having taking in nearly a billion of Premier League cash in his time. He saved a lot of face by writing it off. He was also seemingly happy to take our parachute payments to mitigate his losses...parachute payments that are designed to help with the considerable mess he left us in with legacy contracts etc. And as you said he left us with the the worst owners in our entire history.
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You are out of order mate. He had no obligation to do what he did. He paid an awful lot of money to put right a lot of what he got wrong.
Over £100 million. He deserves our respect for doing that.
For ever. Respect to you for that Mr Short.
 
T_Bone said:
You are out of order mate. He had no obligation to do what he did. He paid an awful lot of money to put right a lot of what he got wrong.
Over £100 million. He deserves our respect for doing that.
For ever. Respect to you for that Mr Short.
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The debt was run up on his watch. He certainly had a moral obligation to sort it. Don't get me wrong, I have massive respect to him for doing so but that is tempered somewhat by him doing a deal to take our parachute payments and selling us to the worst most clueless owners in our history.
 
Redby-lad said:
The debt was run up on his watch. He certainly had a moral obligation to sort it. Don't get me wrong, I have massive respect to him for doing so but that is tempered somewhat by him doing a deal to take our parachute payments and selling us to the worst most clueless owners in our history.
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He didn't do a deal to "take the parachute payments though" according to Donald.....

"The thing which is most easy to put that security against the parachute payments. So, it's security for Ellis to make sure he does get paid out his £40 million, but it is not like he is going to be turning up here on the day the premier league parachute payment arrives with a big sack over his back and waiting to take it back to Florida."

"The reality of it is Sunderland doesn't owe any money. Ellis has wiped the debt off, so the issue is mine. Now if I don't pay him, he has a call on those payments."

"He wanted a charge over the parachute payments as well because it was physical cash well alright if you have a charge over the parachute payments if I didn't pay you, you don't need a charge over the academy and in the end I just went ok fine, it doesnt matter cos you're gonna get paid so just have the charge, and I think the agreement is that as that money then goes down, the charge reduces and then it goes. So, as I pay Ellis which will all be done by within 2 years, he then removes those charges. The position should then be the club has no debt, has no charges, we don't want an overdraft and we then need to see whether or not the club can function without me feeding it every year.
 
Ashley In!! said:
He didn't do a deal to "take the parachute payments though" according to Donald.....

"The thing which is most easy to put that security against the parachute payments. So, it's security for Ellis to make sure he does get paid out his £40 million, but it is not like he is going to be turning up here on the day the premier league parachute payment arrives with a big sack over his back and waiting to take it back to Florida."

"The reality of it is Sunderland doesn't owe any money. Ellis has wiped the debt off, so the issue is mine. Now if I don't pay him, he has a call on those payments."

"He wanted a charge over the parachute payments as well because it was physical cash well alright if you have a charge over the parachute payments if I didn't pay you, you don't need a charge over the academy and in the end I just went ok fine, it doesnt matter cos you're gonna get paid so just have the charge, and I think the agreement is that as that money then goes down, the charge reduces and then it goes. So, as I pay Ellis which will all be done by within 2 years, he then removes those charges. The position should then be the club has no debt, has no charges, we don't want an overdraft and we then need to see whether or not the club can function without me feeding it every year.
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I know what they said but we also know they are full of shit. I'm sure @Grumpy Old Man has mentioned before that the deal was structured so that the parachute payments came into SAFC then straight out again. Please correct me if I'm wrong Grumpy.
 
T_Bone said:
You are out of order mate. He had no obligation to do what he did. He paid an awful lot of money to put right a lot of what he got wrong.
Over £100 million. He deserves our respect for doing that.
For ever. Respect to you for that Mr Short.
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If Donald had been mounting up increasing amounts of club debt to run us the way Short did, he would be given dogs abuse and rightly so. I don't think people appreciate that Short did things that put the club in far more jeopardy than even Donald did, and also held the club to ransom when he forced the EFL to accept Donald as an owner or he would put us into administration.

It is crazy that we ever tolerated Short lumbering us with hundreds of millions of debt to finance his own poor decision-making and his own ego as a football club owner. Ultimately he wanted to run us a certain way, take credit for it, but was financing it all via loans that he probably intended to pay back at first.

But when the time came to pay those loans, he passed £25m of it onto the club for debts and bad decisions that he and his appointees racked up. Even worse, in the Championship season, he clearly abandoned us at a time when he should have been there trying to ensure we didn't plummet.

I think Short was well-intentioned until around 2016, but he was a very, very poor football club owner, and the esteem some of our fans hold him in is deeply at odds with the considerable long term damage he has done to us as a football club.
 
KittenMittens said:
If Donald had been mounting up increasing amounts of club debt to run us the way Short did, he would be given dogs abuse and rightly so. I don't think people appreciate that Short did things that put the club in far more jeopardy than even Donald did, and also held the club to ransom when he forced the EFL to accept Donald as an owner or he would put us into administration.

It is crazy that we ever tolerated Short lumbering us with hundreds of millions of debt to finance his own poor decision-making and his own ego as a football club owner. Ultimately he wanted to run us a certain way, take credit for it, but was financing it all via loans that he probably intended to pay back at first.

But when the time came to pay those loans, he passed £25m of it onto the club for debts and bad decisions that he and his appointees racked up. Even worse, in the Championship season, he clearly abandoned us at a time when he should have been there trying to ensure we didn't plummet.

I think Short was well-intentioned until around 2016, but he was a very, very poor football club owner, and the esteem some of our fans hold him in is deeply at odds with the considerable long term damage he has done to us as a football club.
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Blah blah blah. He failed, realised he had, then forked out in excess of £100 m maybe £150 m to get us going again.
Money that he didnt have to fork out.
How many other football club owners would have done that ?
You are supposed to be intelligent. If you can’t see that what he did was above and beyond what most owners would have done then you are certainly not.
But you know what he did to bail us out was outstanding and we don’t need your lectures.
If I ever see him again I will shake his hand.
 
T_Bone said:
Blah blah blah. He failed, realised he had, then forked out in excess of £100 m maybe £150 m to get us going again.
Money that he didnt have to fork out.
How many other football club owners would have done that ?
You are supposed to be intelligent. If you can’t see that what he did was above and beyond what most owners would have done then you are certainly not.
But you know what he did to bail us out was outstanding and we don’t need your lectures.
If I ever see him again I will shake his hand.
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I don't see why you're being personal about this.

If Stewart Donald was taking out loans right now in the club's name, how would you feel?

Imagine he'd racked up say, £50m of loans in SAFC's name and at the end of his tenure, he said 'I'll give you £40m to cover that, the rest you'll have to sort out'

Would you think that was Donald going 'above and beyond', or would you see it as Donald doing what he should do, paying his debts that he'd run up playing at being a football club owner?
 
KittenMittens said:
I don't see why you're being personal about this.

If Stewart Donald was taking out loans right now in the club's name, how would you feel?

Imagine he'd racked up say, £50m of loans in SAFC's name and at the end of his tenure, he said 'I'll give you £40m to cover that, the rest you'll have to sort out'

Would you think that was Donald going 'above and beyond', or would you see it as Donald doing what he should do, paying his debts that he'd run up playing at being a football club owner?
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I don’t intend to get in a long winded exchange with you, cos long winded is what you like.
I asked you how many other football club owners would have done what Ellis Short did. You didn’t answer but moved the goal posts.
It’s not personal, why would you think it was ?
I would shake his hand if I ever saw him. He fecked up, realised he had and pumped in a lot of his own money when he didn’t have to.
How many other football club owners have done that ?
I honestly don’t know but there can’t be many. You and your Mrs being in the game you are in will no doubt put me right.
 
Redby-lad said:
I know what they said but we also know they are full of shit. I'm sure @Grumpy Old Man has mentioned before that the deal was structured so that the parachute payments came into SAFC then straight out again. Please correct me if I'm wrong Grumpy.
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Taking what Methven told me at face value, that £25m was supposed to go straight from the PL to Drumaville without going anywhere near the club, until it was pointed out the PL rules were that money had to go into a club bank account.
 
T_Bone said:
I don’t intend to get in a long winded exchange with you, cos long winded is what you like.
I asked you how many other football club owners would have done what Ellis Short did. You didn’t answer but moved the goal posts.
It’s not personal, why would you think it was ?
I would shake his hand if I ever saw him. He fecked up, realised he had and pumped in a lot of his own money when he didn’t have to.
How many other football club owners have done that ?
I honestly don’t know but there can’t be many. You and your Mrs being in the game you are in will no doubt put me right.
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  • I don’t intend to get in a long winded exchange with you, cos long winded is what you like.
  • You and your Mrs being in the game you are in will no doubt put me right.
  • You are supposed to be intelligent. If you can’t see that what he did was above and beyond what most owners would have done then you are certainly not.
  • we don’t need your lectures.
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That's why.

Believe what you want. I made a comment, you don't have to agree.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Taking what Methven told me at face value, that £25m was supposed to go straight from the PL to Drumaville without going anywhere near the club, until it was pointed out the PL rules were that money had to go into a club bank account.
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Clearly contradicting what they had previously said.

If we take what they say on face value, Ellis was never meant to be paid from parachutes, SD and CM changed their mind at some point and they categorically lied at one time or other, maybe both.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Taking what Methven told me at face value, that £25m was supposed to go straight from the PL to Drumaville without going anywhere near the club, until it was pointed out the PL rules were that money had to go into a club bank account.
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The experience of the last couple of years means we should be very cautious about taking anything on face value unfortunately, especially when it comes from our current owners.
 
KittenMittens said:
That's why.

Believe what you want. I made a comment, you don't have to agree.
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I disagree, I would feel mortified had SD racked up debts against the club because I have a strong opinion of what he is.

Ellis was quite different, I can only imagine 90% of sunderland fans would beg someone to take a gamble with 200m on the club. 100% of fans if it were guaranteed to be cleared by the owner, should it go wrong.

He tried, he failed, he stepped up to something he was not legally required to do, I'm grateful.

SD treat the club like a jolly day out. Trading the clubs future for a mid life crisis.
 
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