Sunderland uni tuition fees announced


Status
Not open for further replies.
So get a job and study part-time if you don't want to pay the fees. Taxpayers do not owe you a living. The OU runs courses that are graded as the same in quality as the Russell Group universities and cost just £700 a year. No one is being prevented from gaining a quality education.



Exactly....Take this as an example...

Student has debt of £30k......Interest on that is at rate of inflation (say 4% per annum)....That eqautes to £1200 in interest in year 1....

Now assuming the student becomes a teacher....


Year 1 Salary 21k Interest on loan £1200 repayments £60 (£5 per month)


Year 2 Total debt is now £31,140 Salary is £23k Interest on loan is £1245 repayments £180 (£15 per month)


Year 3 Total debt now £32205 Salary is £25k Interst on loan is £1288 repayments £300 (£25 per month)


Year 4 Total debt now £33193 Salary is £27k Interest on loan is £1327 repayments. £420 (£35 per month)


Year 5 Total debt now £34520 Salary is £29k Interest on loan is £1380 repayments, £540 (£45 per month)

Year 6 Total debt now £35900:eek:


Anybody seeing a problem here :lol:
 
Glad I'm no longer a student with fee's like those proposed.

Okay you don't pay it back until you earn just above average earnings but you're going to be saddled with paying a chunk of your earnings at a time when you're probably buying your first house and probably starting a family.

I left with £6k worth of debt and that's nearly all paid off now, if I had to do it again I worked out I'd have been nearly £100k in debt after 7 years of study.

Fuck that. :lol: Nobody will want to be doing courses like medicine or architecture because the pays not massive but is above the threshold to pay back so they'll be saddled with paying that back for 20-30 years. Even over 30 years that's £277 per month - for 30 years. :eek::lol:


Before I went to Uni I earned about £15k......Studied law, ammassed debts of around £20k.....I now payback £90 is a month but earn twice (soon to be 3 times) my old salary.....Agreed re: paying a chunk out of my salary at a time when I have other responsibilities, (3 kids).

HOWEVER

I have a car loan that costs me £100 a month, my education has done a damn site more for my prospects in life and my future earning potential than my car.....I was going nowhere, I got my degree (then postgrad) and it opened up a whole new world to me.....(I am no different to what I was, I have no more ability but do have that all important piece of paper)

Top and bottom is that it is not fair, those who are making the decision to saddle us with this debt never paid it themselves

Oh and it will be the best investment you ever make :cool:
 
This from the University of Leeds. The government is also awarding grants of £3,250 to the poorest students and they do not have to be repaid.

How much will I repay, how and when?

You will only start to repay your tuition and maintenance loan after you have left higher education and are earning at least £21,000. This £21,000 threshold will increase in line with earnings from 2016 onwards. If for any reason your income falls below £21,000 your repayments will be suspended, for example if you take maternity leave.

The amount repaid each month will depend on your earnings - repayments will be 9% of your income above £21,000.

Example
Someone earning £21,500 - currently the salary of a newly-qualified teacher - would initially make repayments of £4 per month. The monthly repayment would increase to £23 for someone earning £24,000 per year; £30 on a salary of £25,000; £45 on £27,000; and £68 on £30,000.

Making repayments
The repayments will normally be deducted automatically from your pay packet through the tax system.

Interest rates
Interest on your loan will be charged at inflation plus 3% while you are studying, and up until the April after you leave university.

From the April after you leave university if you are earning below £21,000, interest will be applied at the rate of inflation.

Graduates earning between £21,000 and £41,000 will be charged interest on a sliding scale up to a maximum of inflation plus 3%.

Graduates earning above £41,000 will be charged interest at the full rate of inflation plus 3%.

All outstanding repayments will be written off after 30 years.
 
that is the interest element bulding up, the principal amount is still being repaid.


How is it? The payments you are making do not even cover the interest so the total value of the amount you owe increases. :roll:
 
How is it? The payments you are making do not even cover the interest so the total value of the amount you owe increases. :roll:

strip out the interest element and you are repaying the principle.

i'm not saying it's correct I'm just breaking the cash flows down to the very basics. the loan interest is compounding itself.
 
This from the University of Leeds. The government is also awarding grants of £3,250 to the poorest students and they do not have to be repaid.

How much will I repay, how and when?

You will only start to repay your tuition and maintenance loan after you have left higher education and are earning at least £21,000. This £21,000 threshold will increase in line with earnings from 2016 onwards. If for any reason your income falls below £21,000 your repayments will be suspended, for example if you take maternity leave.

The amount repaid each month will depend on your earnings - repayments will be 9% of your income above £21,000.

Example
Someone earning £21,500 - currently the salary of a newly-qualified teacher - would initially make repayments of £4 per month. The monthly repayment would increase to £23 for someone earning £24,000 per year; £30 on a salary of £25,000; £45 on £27,000; and £68 on £30,000.

Making repayments
The repayments will normally be deducted automatically from your pay packet through the tax system.

Interest rates
Interest on your loan will be charged at inflation plus 3% while you are studying, and up until the April after you leave university.

From the April after you leave university if you are earning below £21,000, interest will be applied at the rate of inflation.

Graduates earning between £21,000 and £41,000 will be charged interest on a sliding scale up to a maximum of inflation plus 3%.

Graduates earning above £41,000 will be charged interest at the full rate of inflation plus 3%.

All outstanding repayments will be written off after 30 years.


The interest is actually much higher than I thought. The payments people make (unless they are top earners) will never cover the interest being charged on those loans and will eventually be written off (probably with more being owed than was ever borrowed despite 30 years of payments).....It is a graduate tax by any other name only instead of being simple and saying if you graduate you will pay 10% of all your income over £21k they have made it ridiculously complicated.:eek:
 
Fair eh? What is so unique about you that others should give you part of their salaries to pay your way. There are far worse off people in society that your average student. What's fair about giving a student a £40,000 free education while some of our pensioners, people who have worked and paid tax all their lives, are in a situation where they have to decide whether to eat or put the heating on. What is fair about that?

I suggest you go back to uni and learn about fairness.


Before I went to Uni I earned about £15k......Studied law, ammassed debts of around £20k.....I now payback £90 is a month but earn twice (soon to be 3 times) my old salary.....Agreed re: paying a chunk out of my salary at a time when I have other responsibilities, (3 kids).

HOWEVER

I have a car loan that costs me £100 a month, my education has done a damn site more for my prospects in life and my future earning potential than my car.....I was going nowhere, I got my degree (then postgrad) and it opened up a whole new world to me.....(I am no different to what I was, I have no more ability but do have that all important piece of paper)

Top and bottom is that it is not fair, those who are making the decision to saddle us with this debt never paid it themselves

Oh and it will be the best investment you ever make :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
strip out the interest element and you are repaying the principle.

i'm not saying it's correct I'm just breaking the cash flows down to the very basics. the loan interest is compounding itself.


Which is the problem behind the scheme and the reason most of these loans will never be repaid.

The loans are given to the students from money they government borrows on behalf of the tax payer.....They pay interest on that money.....The repayments most students will make will not even cover the interest....The tax payer (just like they do now) will ultimately fund these tuition fees.....Total lose lose situation and the most bizarre solution that could have been found to this issue. :eek:
 
So why was everyone demonstrating about these fees then, when half the fuckers won't even need to pay them back?
 
Which is the problem behind the scheme and the reason most of these loans will never be repaid.

The loans are given to the students from money they government borrows on behalf of the tax payer.....They pay interest on that money.....The repayments most students will make will not even cover the interest....The tax payer (just like they do now) will ultimately fund these tuition fees.....Total lose lose situation and the most bizarre solution that could have been found to this issue. :eek:


If I am a non uk citizen, and my loan is abolished after 30 years, does that mean the british tax payer still has to repay my debt?:eek:
 
Which is the problem behind the scheme and the reason most of these loans will never be repaid.

The loans are given to the students from money they government borrows on behalf of the tax payer.....They pay interest on that money.....The repayments most students will make will not even cover the interest....The tax payer (just like they do now) will ultimately fund these tuition fees.....Total lose lose situation and the most bizarre solution that could have been found to this issue. :eek:

not quite. if you remove the time value of money the principal amount can be repaid over 28 years (basing it on roughly £90 pcm)

again, not saying that is the correct way to look at it but one way. the interest is the time value of money and the risk the state takes in not being paid back (unemployment/emigration) but it is happy to take that risk based on future tax earnings.
 
Fair eh? What is so unique about you that others should give you part of their salaries to pay your way. There are far worse off people in society that your average student. What's fair about giving a student a £40,000 free education while some of our pensioners, people who have worked and paid tax all their lives, are in a situation where they have to decide whether to eat or put the heating on. What is fair about that?

I suggest you go back to uni and learn about fairness.


I suggest you go to primary school reading classes, that way you could read and possibly comprehend basic English.....I said its not fair (in the sense that those making the decision got a free education themselves) but went on to say it will be the best investment you will ever make thus making it obvious that I am more than happy to pay for my education....

Oh and the way the system has been created the tax payer will foot the bill anyway as the loans will never be repaid.....

And those poor unfortunates who work all their lives have had exactly the same opportunity as everyone else to work hard at school, college, University etc they chose a different path. In some cases and some trades that path will have involved in free college courses (most trades) that the taxpayer funded....You also forget that paying a student loan doesnt mean not paying other taxes. A plumber earns far in excess of what I do but I pay 10% more tax on income over 21k than a plumber does but Im not moaning as that was my choice. As for the OAP's yeh they have worked all their lives and paid taxes....But at their age so will all graduates and we will have paid an extra 10% of our earnings than they did as those graduates amongst them got their education for free. Of course many of the lower earners have still paid taxes but they benefit from the extra taxes higher earners pay so that they can have a decent standard of living in their retirement. Again, Im not complaining about that as its only fair that those who earn more pay more.

If I am a non uk citizen, and my loan is abolished after 30 years, does that mean the british tax payer still has to repay my debt?:eek:

Yes, the British tax payer paid the money upfront to the Universities (as they do now) so if you do not repay it then the British tax payer has paid your debt.
 
So if you were neglected from birth by your parents, mentally or sexually abused as a child, tolerated but not accepted by your school, and then dumped into the world totally unprepared you have had the same chance as everyone else have you?

You're a middle class twit who has no understanding of what real life is about and probably had everything handed to him on a plate.

I suggest you go to primary school reading classes, that way you could read and possibly comprehend basic English.....I said its not fair (in the sense that those making the decision got a free education themselves) but went on to say it will be the best investment you will ever make thus making it obvious that I am more than happy to pay for my education....

Oh and the way the system has been created the tax payer will foot the bill anyway as the loans will never be repaid.....

And those poor unfortunates who work all their lives have had exactly the same opportunity as everyone else to work hard at school, college, University etc they chose a different path. In some cases and some trades that path will have involved in free college courses (most trades) that the taxpayer funded....You also forget that paying a student loan doesnt mean not paying other taxes. A plumber earns far in excess of what I do but I pay 10% more tax on income over 21k than a plumber does but Im not moaning as that was my choice. As for the OAP's yeh they have worked all their lives and paid taxes....But at their age so will all graduates and we will have paid an extra 10% of our earnings than they did as those graduates amongst them got their education for free. Of course many of the lower earners have still paid taxes but they benefit from the extra taxes higher earners pay so that they can have a decent standard of living in their retirement. Again, Im not complaining about that as its only fair that those who earn more pay more.



Yes, the British tax payer paid the money upfront to the Universities (as they do now) so if you do not repay it then the British tax payer has paid your debt.
 
Surely a true graduate tax would have been far more fair and far cheaper to administer.

Simply tax everybody who has a degree (info available from the universities) 9% of their income over £21k......Thats everbody, not just new students but people like Cameron, Blair, Clegg etc who got theirs for free......Now THAT is fair. Simpy and easily administered through the existing tax system.
 
And then graduates could pay tax from graduation to retirement. i.e instead of 30 years for all up to 47 years for those who will be retiring at 68. I'm sure graduates will be happy with that.



Surely a true graduate tax would have been far more fair and far cheaper to administer.

Simply tax everybody who has a degree (info available from the universities) 9% of their income over £21k......Thats everbody, not just new students but people like Cameron, Blair, Clegg etc who got theirs for free......Now THAT is fair. Simpy and easily administered through the existing tax system.
 
Surely a true graduate tax would have been far more fair and far cheaper to administer.

Simply tax everybody who has a degree (info available from the universities) 9% of their income over £21k......Thats everbody, not just new students but people like Cameron, Blair, Clegg etc who got theirs for free......Now THAT is fair. Simpy and easily administered through the existing tax system.

Graduate tax would be a vote loser, nobody wants a new tax. That's why they've disguised it.

To be honest though, it's probably fairer this way. Education isn't free, it should be paid for, including fair interest. If you earn enough to pay it off quickly enough then great, you've paid for it. If not, pay it back until you do (or 30 years).

What were they all demonstating for?
 
Last edited:
So if you were neglected from birth by your parents, mentally or sexually abused as a child, tolerated but not accepted by your school, and then dumped into the world totally unprepared you have had the same chance as everyone else have you?

You're a middle class twit who has no understanding of what real life is about and probably had everything handed to him on a plate
.

Shows how little you know mate....My dad brought up our family on his £80 a week factory job, my mother was/is a nutcase who suffered severe depression (something she has past onto me along with many beatings as a kid)....My parents have featured on an episode of neighbours from hell (they are completely crackers). Our school clothes were usually the ones our mates parents had taken to the charity shops....When I was at University (first time) I worked two jobs as I loaned my parents my student loan money so that they could avoid bankrputcy. I eventually dropped out after two years as couldnt afford to stay.

I then went back in my late 20s as had my own family and didnt want to drag them up the way I had been....This time i studied during the day then worked in Littlewoods call centre till mid night every night as well as doing some tele sales from home too. But hey you are right I had it piss easy....

Top and bottom people piss me off cause they spend their lives making excuses about why they cant do stuff rather than getting off their arses and fighting like bastards to improve their lives.....Yeh, people have it tough, I had it tough but moaning about it aint gonna make it any better. :evil:
 
If I get a degree, big if, I hope I remain the arsehole I am and not a pretentious know it all arsehole like so many seem to become.
 
And then graduates could pay tax from graduation to retirement. i.e instead of 30 years for all up to 47 years for those who will be retiring at 68. I'm sure graduates will be happy with that.

They are not happy now but why should some graduates pay and not others?....If all graduates were paying rather than just the new ones then everybody would pay a lesser rate rather than humping all the cost onto future generations. Similarly if they paid it for all of their working lives rather than 30 years then they would pay a lesser amount in percentage terms per year....Surely your final 20 years of your working life are the time you are at the peak of your earnings and hence are more likely to be able to afford this tax?

At end of the day I already pay my 9% on my income over £15k so I am looking at it as a point of principle that its not fair on future generations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top