Sunderland fans! Hew!


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I'll apologise - I just can't get me head round how somebody could have such seemingly blind devotion without so much as a hint of critical thinking.

It’s not blind devotion, it’s not jumping to conclusions and believing everything to read on the internet. Lots of facts out there to be unhappy about. The way he handled the Grigg transfer, Maja, Benji. He’s disclosing far too much information, very unprofessional (although it’s his club so he can do what he likes).

What winds me up is that he’s gone from a hero to a villain, receiving threats, for no reason. This ‘takeover ‘ that was never a ‘takeover ‘ had tipped fans over the edge. In reality, nothing has happened. We missed promotion due to the last kick of a ball. Unlucky. He’s given Ross a fair ride, when it looks like he’s not up to the challenge, he has sacked him with the season still up for grabs. He also Handled the sacking excellently.

He’s done a lot of good, far outweighing the bad, in my opinion.
 
It’s not blind devotion, it’s not jumping to conclusions and believing everything to read on the internet. Lots of facts out there to be unhappy about. The way he handled the Grigg transfer, Maja, Benji. He’s disclosing far too much information, very unprofessional (although it’s his club so he can do what he likes).

What winds me up is that he’s gone from a hero to a villain, receiving threats, for no reason. This ‘takeover ‘ that was never a ‘takeover ‘ had tipped fans over the edge. In reality, nothing has happened. We missed promotion due to the last kick of a ball. Unlucky. He’s given Ross a fair ride, when it looks like he’s not up to the challenge, he has sacked him with the season still up for grabs. He also Handled the sacking excellently.

He’s done a lot of good, far outweighing the bad, in my opinion.
Fair enough, it's just the impression I get, and given your opening posit here I think I could be forgiven for thinking as much. I don't believe everything I read on the internet, far from it.

What winds me up is people thinking he was a hero in the first place.

I couldn't care less about 'threats' on twitter. Kids and idiots. People need to grow up - him included. Sticks and stones and all that. As has no doubt probably been said elsewhere, he perhaps shouldn't have been on there in the first place.

Being marooned in League 1 with him at the wheel far outweighs anything else he has or hasn't done at the club. Promotion wasn't missed because of the last kick of the ball. We missed promotion time and time again in the months prior, and it was clear to anyone that final we were never winning that game.

Who handled the sacking well? Jack Ross left with dignity, but I'm not sure the club handled it well given the timing. Perhaps it was unavoidable, and no doubt we'll never know the full truth of the situation, but it left some massive question marks over what the hell's going on behind the scenes.
I'm not saying you specificaly but others appear to demanding answers when the owners are under no bligation to give them.
All I'll say to that is you should be very careful preaching and promising transparency if you're going close the blind when it suits.
 
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A lot of the criticism seems unjust but it's only right the owners come under some scrutiny.

In my time supporting the club Cowie, Murray, Drumaville and Short have all ended up running the club close extinction to various degrees.

They've gone a long way to getting the club back in order. At this moment in time we look far from a stable club.

The '100 point' comment was stupid. Keep mentioning we have 'the biggest budget in League One' hasn't done them any favours.

A lot of the sticks used to beat Donald, Methvan and Ross are critics directly quoting SD & CM. I'd have sympathy but Methvan does PR for a living.
 
yep, i'm aware of the 60% rule. I'm assuming we're paying a lot less for the current squad than last season due to the high earners we still had on the books then. assuming also that the parachute payments are included in turnover so until they run out we probably have a little wiggle room(?).
edit: Just read the article in the Chron today that states our wage bill is around £10m and our turnover is estimated at £18m, so it's close.

we're owed one more parachute payment of £16m aren't we?

We did get a couple of high earners off the books but this year's parachute payment was considerably less than last year's iirc, meaning our turnover will be a lot less this year than last year.

I could be wrong but I think this year was the final parachute payment. I'm totally open to being corrected on that though.
 
Fair enough, it's just the impression I get, and given your opening posit here I think I could be forgiven for thinking as much. I don't believe everything I read on the internet, far from it.

What winds me up is people thinking he was a hero in the first place.

I couldn't care less about 'threats' on twitter. Kids and idiots. People need to grow up - him included. Sticks and stones and all that. As has no doubt probably been said elsewhere, he perhaps shouldn't have been on there in the first place.

Being marooned in League 1 with him at the wheel far outweighs anything else he has or hasn't done at the club. Promotion wasn't missed because of the last kick of the ball. We missed promotion time and time again in the months prior, and it was clear to anyone that final we were never winning that game.

Who handled the sacking well? Jack Ross left with dignity, but I'm not sure the club handled it well given the timing. Perhaps it was unavoidable, and no doubt we'll never know the full truth of the situation, but it left some massive question marks over what the hell's going on behind the scenes.

All I'll say to that is you should be very careful preaching and promising transparency if you're going close the blind when it suits.
All about context. Pre season last year was a joke. Amount of players wanting out was a joke. I’m surprised we actually competed to be honest. This season though, different. If we are not top 2 then big questions must be asked and it will be a failure.
 
all he said was that the parachute money had gone from the club to madrox and then to SBC (to pay off the debt) and that it would come back into the club "when it was needed", CM piped in that some of it had already come back in as running costs which is fair enough if that is the case.

what they haven't done is put a timeline on the rest of it and the question many of us have is would that money better off in a holding company like madrox or used by the football club to help us get out of this woeful league (transfers, wages).

what is more concerning is that CM has said in the last RAWA minutes that the money still owed (some £20 million) would be taken off the purchase price and the new owners would then put that extra money back into the club (assuming they would do that).
My opinion on that is that there seems currently no plan or schedule to put that money back into the club. there's absolutely nothing illegal in what they've done but it's very concerning given on the face of it we seemingly can't or won't spend money to improve the squad.

This is the point - what is the delay? What benefit is there to the football club of that money not being in the bank ASAP? Even if the club doesn't need it immediately, why not just put it in and be done with it?

We're meant to rely on the word of a pairing who misled everyone over how they got the club and only backtracked when people called them out on it. We're meant to believe that the money will go in as and when it's needed, yet at the same time they've spent months trying to get "investment" then claimed it's for a future date. Righto
yep, i'm aware of the 60% rule. I'm assuming we're paying a lot less for the current squad than last season due to the high earners we still had on the books then. assuming also that the parachute payments are included in turnover so until they run out we probably have a little wiggle room(?).
edit: Just read the article in the Chron today that states our wage bill is around £10m and our turnover is estimated at £18m, so it's close.

we're owed one more parachute payment of £16m aren't we?

Yes, the story has changed on that too
 
It’s not blind devotion, it’s not jumping to conclusions and believing everything to read on the internet. Lots of facts out there to be unhappy about. The way he handled the Grigg transfer, Maja, Benji. He’s disclosing far too much information, very unprofessional (although it’s his club so he can do what he likes).

What winds me up is that he’s gone from a hero to a villain, receiving threats, for no reason. This ‘takeover ‘ that was never a ‘takeover ‘ had tipped fans over the edge. In reality, nothing has happened. We missed promotion due to the last kick of a ball. Unlucky. He’s given Ross a fair ride, when it looks like he’s not up to the challenge, he has sacked him with the season still up for grabs. He also Handled the sacking excellently.

He’s done a lot of good, far outweighing the bad, in my opinion.
I've never changed my opinion of him. He's there to run the club. When things are going well he's all over it, when things take a dip he's silent. There shouldn't be any threats made but football fans are ny their very nature passionate and a little bit silly.
 
The team needed pace and creativity in midfield. We signed George Dobson. We needed some pace on the wing, we signed Nee fucker. This recruitment team have signed 6 Centre backs. Sorry make that 7. We're weaker in both full back positions than last season.

It's not all bad though Willis looks decent as does McNulty.


How anyone can't see problems with recruitment is beyond me.

We have Gooch and Watmore who can both play on the wings and are both very pacey, especially for this division. I disagree that we needed another one.

Also we were always going to be weaker at left-back than last season due to needing Oviedo off the wage bill. We were never going to get a replacement for him who was better than him on a normal League 1 wage.

Time will tell about the new right-back, but again we got rid of Donald Love and Matthews (neither of whom were making the position their own) with their Premier League wages and brought in a League 1 right-back, freeing up O'Nien to play in his favoured position.

The recruitment team didn't bring in 7 centre-backs this season. All but two of them were last season and it was clear we needed an upgrade for this season, which we got in Willis and arguably Lynch. That's a positive not a negative.
 
We have Gooch and Watmore who can both play on the wings and are both very pacey, especially for this division. I disagree that we needed another one.

Also we were always going to be weaker at left-back than last season due to needing Oviedo off the wage bill. We were never going to get a replacement for him who was better than him on a normal League 1 wage.

Time will tell about the new right-back, but again we got rid of Donald Love and Matthews (neither of whom were making the position their own) with their Premier League wages and brought in a League 1 right-back, freeing up O'Nien to play in his favoured position.

The recruitment team didn't bring in 7 centre-backs this season. All but two of them were last season and it was clear we needed an upgrade for this season, which we got in Willis and arguably Lynch. That's a positive not a negative.
It's a positive that we had to sign 2 new centre backs having signed 5 the previous season?

Regarding the wingers. Gooch is pretty poor and Watmore is never fit.
 
Incidentally, I've seen this sort of thing mentioned a couple of times now... What's this sudden connection some people are making between posters being level-headed about SAFC and them being accused of being something to do with RR?

As far as I'm concerned, RR contains some of the most negative, un-level-headed drivel that ever gets published about SAFC. Why are they suddenly being seen to be otherwise? Have I missed something?

Can't speak for anyone else mate, I'm not saying it just because he is (in your words) level headed.
I said it because I'm pretty sure he is / was something to do with RR?

He's mates with the people who run it IIRC?

May be wrong, but just putting it out there because 'context' and 'agenda' is important to remember when reading some people's posts.
 
All about context. Pre season last year was a joke. Amount of players wanting out was a joke. I’m surprised we actually competed to be honest. This season though, different. If we are not top 2 then big questions must be asked and it will be a failure.
Ipswich released a load of players in the summer yet they're romping it.

Our situation wasn't as bleak as some would suggest. A high turnover was expected but that's not exactly abnormal when a side is relegated. Our squad still included Lee Cattermole, Bryan Oviedo, Adam Matthews, Aiden McGeady, Lynden Gooch, George Honeyman, Josh Maja and Donald Love from the season prior. I'd absolutely expect that squad to compete. The squad now, I'm not so sure. If it had been left to the owners, those in bold wouldn't have even been here this time last season.
 
I'll apologise - I just can't get me head round how somebody could have such seemingly blind devotion without so much as a hint of critical thinking.

Not saying I agree with your appraisal of the OP but theoretically, is it so hard to believe that such a person as the one you describe exists when there are clearly so many people that have blind anti-devotion without so much of a hint of critical thinking?

This board is full of people getting really angry and calling the owners every name under the sun because of things that haven't even happened, based solely on rumours and scenarios that they've invented themselves! Where's the critical thinking there?
 
Results and league table aside, I do wonder where all the I’ll feeling about the owners is coming from.
i agree that we are underperforming but the criticism towards them seems unbalanced at the moment and without a visible source
 
We have Gooch and Watmore who can both play on the wings and are both very pacey, especially for this division. I disagree that we needed another one.

Also we were always going to be weaker at left-back than last season due to needing Oviedo off the wage bill. We were never going to get a replacement for him who was better than him on a normal League 1 wage.

Time will tell about the new right-back, but again we got rid of Donald Love and Matthews (neither of whom were making the position their own) with their Premier League wages and brought in a League 1 right-back, freeing up O'Nien to play in his favoured position.

The recruitment team didn't bring in 7 centre-backs this season. All but two of them were last season and it was clear we needed an upgrade for this season, which we got in Willis and arguably Lynch. That's a positive not a negative.
Please don't come on here quoting Duncan fuckin' Watmore as a viable option. Jesus wept man. Regardless of whether you think he's any use or not the bugger's never fit. How you can argue we didn't need a winger because we've got him (who isn't even a winger by the way) is beyond me. Unbelievable.
Not saying I agree with your appraisal of the OP but theoretically, is it so hard to believe that such a person as the one you describe exists when there are clearly so many people that have blind anti-devotion without so much of a hint of critical thinking?

This board is full of people getting really angry and calling the owners every name under the sun because of things that haven't even happened, based solely on rumours and scenarios that they've invented themselves! Where's the critical thinking there?
If it wasn't for the fact you've been around here forever, I'd be suspicious of you anarl.

I base my criticism of the owners on the fact that there's been little to no investment in the club and the playing staff, the fact we finished 5th last season, and the fact that we are currently languishing rudderless in 9th place, with a worse squad than last year, because their man didn't work out. That's not a scenario I've invented - that is what's happening at MY football club.
 
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It's a positive that we had to sign 2 new centre backs having signed 5 the previous season?

Regarding the wingers. Gooch is pretty poor and Watmore is never fit.

No, it's a positive that we did sign two centre-backs when it became clear we need two.

Watmore had two very unlucky unrelated injuries. There's no reason to think he would continue getting them.

And I disagree about Gooch. I think he's one of our best players who gets a lot of undue stick. He had a dip in form last season (iirc after his baby was born, but I could be wrong) but this year he's been a much improved player and for me he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.
Can't speak for anyone else mate, I'm not saying it just because he is (in your words) level headed.
I said it because I'm pretty sure he is / was something to do with RR?

He's mates with the people who run it IIRC?

May be wrong, but just putting it out there because 'context' and 'agenda' is important to remember when reading some people's posts.

Fair enough, but why should having mates at RR mean that he should be defending the club, when RR publishes so much negative drivel?
 
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No, it's a positive that we did sign two centre-backs when it became clear we need two.

Watmore had two very unlucky unrelated injuries. There's no reason to think he would continue getting them.

And I disagree about Gooch. I think he's one of our best players who gets a lot of undue stick. He had a dip in form last season (iirc after his baby was born, but I could be wrong) but this year he's been a much improved player and for me he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.


Fair enough, but why should having mates at RR mean that he should be defending the club, when RR publishes so much negative drivel?
We'll have to agree to disagree regarding Gooch. His performances don't bavknyour opinion up
 
Fair enough, but why should having mates at RR mean that he should be defending the club, when RR publishes so much negative drivel?

Maybe I should read it more often, I rarely do and to be honest I get most of what they publish regurgitated on here.

I'm just tying them to the 'unofficial mouthpiece' status they've had at times. Especially with the infamous podcast talking about the takeover being completed that started the whole sh*tstorm on here a few weeks ago.
 
Please don't come on here quoting Duncan fuckin' Watmore as a viable option. Jesus wept man. Regardless of whether you think he's any use or not the bugger's never fit. How you can argue we didn't need a winger because we've got him (who isn't even a winger by the way) is beyond me. Unbelievable.

If it wasn't for the fact you've been around here forever, I'd be suspicious of you anarl.

I base my criticism of the owners on the fact that there's been little to no investment in the club and the playing staff, the fact we finished 5th last season, and the fact that we are currently languishing rudderless in 9th place, with a worse squad than last year, because their man didn't work out. That's not a scenario I've invented - that is what's happening at MY football club.

RE: Wingers (and attacking midfielders)

We have McGeady and Maguire who are up there in most people's lists of our best players. While neither are pacey, would you have sold one or both of them in the Summer in order to bring in another winger? Between those two and Gooch we have three players competing for two positions in a 4-4-2 formation, or them and O'Nien and McNulty competing for three positions in a 4-2-3-1 formation. With Watmore able to play on the wing as well as up front, he's a pacey option to add to that mix if we need it.

I just don't see why not bringing in another winger is worthy of criticism. As far as I'm concerned we're well-covered in that area and it was no surprise at all to me that we didn't bring in another winger in the Summer.

As I've said earlier in the thread, while I agree that we're technically weaker in a couple of positions than we were at the end of the season, those positions were being occupied by players we couldn't afford to keep this year because of the League 1 wage restrictions, and it would be completely unreasonable to expect us to be able to replace them with better players than the ones we got rid of. In addition the squad is now much more balanced than the one that finished the season and arguably we're stronger up front and in central defence than we were last year. While Dobson might not technically be an upgrade on Cattermole, we got rid of a more defensive-minded central midfielder and brought in a more attacking one, something that we definitely needed to do.

We also needed to reduce the wage bill because of our reduced turnover this year due to the League 1 wage restrictions saying our wage bill can't be more than 60% of our turnover. With this year's parachute payment being so much less than the one we received last year, we had to dramatically reduce our wage bill this year in order to conform with the rule, while simultaneously giving us a little bit of breathing room for January if we needed to bring in more players, and also keeping us sustainable and making us look more attractive to potential investors.

TL;DR, I think it's too simplistic to say "the squad is weaker than last year" and use it as a stick to beat the owners over the head with.
 
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