Suicide

Harry Angstrom said:
It's not just that. I think at the time they will think they are doing the best for everyone. I could be wrong.
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Could well be. Or some may be at the point no one else or nothing else matters.

peil said:
I can see both sides of it, having lost my brother that way several years ago, and also having a couple of 'incomplete attempts' myself.

Sad is the closest though - being in a place where you actually believe the world, your kids, everyone you know, will be better off without you. You know they'll cry and make noises, but they'll move on without you dragging them back. It's trying to remember you didn't always feel like that and that you won't always. I was lucky enough to have enough awareness/guilt of the mess I'd leave/whatever to stop before taking that last step.
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Bloody hell, glad you made it out. Fair points about what you'd leave behind. I reckon some will be past caring, or at least at the point nothing is enough to sacrifice their escape.

Re: the lad I made the OP about. Seems like no one has a clue why still.
 
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peil said:
I can see both sides of it, having lost my brother that way several years ago, and also having a couple of 'incomplete attempts' myself.

Sad is the closest though - being in a place where you actually believe the world, your kids, everyone you know, will be better off without you. You know they'll cry and make noises, but they'll move on without you dragging them back. It's trying to remember you didn't always feel like that and that you won't always. I was lucky enough to have enough awareness/guilt of the mess I'd leave/whatever to stop before taking that last step.
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everyone is different and have different thoughts, but I do tend agree with what you say.

from my understanding, the person just cannot see a way through the issue.

It is like a door has been slammed shut and there is no way forward, yet the issue has so consumed them, they feel as though they must resolve it at all costs. Even if that cost is as severe as it can be.

The mental torture these people go through and in some cases added together with alcohol and drugs and with that, sleep deprivation. all rational thoughts and proportionality is lost and only one outcome can be seen to end the torture.
 
jackynutmeg said:
Social media doesn't f***ing help...it promotes it.
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Certainly seen it more in the last 6 months with 4 suicides in the dales. This covers a big area, but all news on social media.....

Reptilia said:
Anyone who classes it as selfish doesn’t understand suicide or mental health at all and probably shouldn’t be commenting on it to be honest.
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It's an illness, so I agree it can't be selfish even though it might seem it from what's left behind.....
 
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dangermows said:
Plenty do marra.



How do you know? You dont know what some peoples lives are like either.
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Life is a gift mate...
You say that family friend left kids behind, now they're probably wondering all sorts about why it happened to them...were they the reason! Its left the family in a world of pain and questions... selfish imo
 
What if the person actually sat down with friends and family and explained all the reasons they want out. Whilst you might not agree with it at least youre not left with the whys and what ifs. Its a tough one as ultimately it should be the person who chooses as it is them who is living their life.
the veteran said:
Life is a gift mate...
You say that family friend left kids behind, now they're probably wondering all sorts about why it happened to them...were they the reason! Its left the family in a world of pain and questions... selfish imo
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@Reptilia

rudd said:
Neither. I also believe that suicidality isn't always a mental illness.
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You could well be right. Dont think any scientific studies show its always a mental illness?
 
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This was along the lines of my comment earlier.

If it’s out of the blue then fair enough, but if you are down, discussed it with family and have sought professional help and years down the line still feel like shit everyday then what are you meant to do? At that point I’d argue everyone else is being selfish in wanting you to hang on.

There are plenty of people who think euthanasia should be legal for dimentia, where half the time the one suffering doesn’t know where they are. But yet, the same people are quite happy to say someone should slog it out year after year feeling absolutely terrible day in, day out.

Seems daft
 
dangermows said:
What if the person actually sat down with friends and family and explained all the reasons they want out. Whilst you might not agree with it at least youre not left with the whys and what ifs. Its a tough one as ultimately it should be the person who chooses as it is them who is living their life.


@Reptilia



You could well be right. Dont think any scientific studies show its always a mental illness?
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I think it would be dangerous to say always, as per any human action, always is a very strong term and will be wrong to say in every case.

as per scientific studies being done, that in itself is a dangerous route as the clinicians tend to disagree with each other anyway. there is a dispute as to diagnose mental illness and its different degrees.

bipolar for example or autism and the range is wide

I am not clever enough to be an expert in this field but I do know from work that I have done which merges onto gaining opinions, it is very difficult if not impossible to get everybody to agree a diagnosis.

The one thing I did come out with, with these meetings is that psychiatrists are very clever people who are absolutely nuts
 
Lone Wolf said:
This was along the lines of my comment earlier.

If it’s out of the blue then fair enough, but if you are down, discussed it with family and have sought professional help and years down the line still feel like shit everyday then what are you meant to do? At that point I’d argue everyone else is being selfish in wanting you to hang on.

There are plenty of people who think euthanasia should be legal for dimentia, where half the time the one suffering doesn’t know where they are. But yet, the same people are quite happy to say someone should slog it out year after year feeling absolutely terrible day in, day out.

Seems daft
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I have a lot of sympathy for this position

Living with mental health problems is exhausting, I can fully understand someone after years of treatment with no signs of improvement wanting out.
 
Keawyeds said:
Well there's a sweeping generalisation.

So people who have MND or other conditions which will basically destroy their abilities and life are "mentally ill" for wanting to choose how they die?
What's your stance on a dignified death?

We will have assisted suicide in this country in my lifetime. I guarantee it.

You wouldn't let an animal suffer, why should people?
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I never said, insinuated or implied any of those things. I merely said that suicide is neither brave nor selfish. :lol:


Nice try, Cathy.

Logon or register to see this image


(Actually it wasn't, it was a f***ing awful attempt at virtue signalling and strawmanning. TRY HARDER!)
 
Horley Chorley said:
I would imagine, those that commit suicide are neither selfish nor brave, nor weak.
I just think they've got to a point in their lives where they cannot see any other way out of their problems, other than to end their lives.
I really don't think that they even consider the implications of their actions, and how it will impact on loved ones they leave behind.
They seem to be totally focused on finding a way out of their torment.
It's often been stated, that the hours before somebody ends their life, that they seem totally relaxed and happy, giving no outward clues, that they'll be soon ending their life.
I think the appearance of seeming to be happy, is that they have come to terms with bringing about an end to their torment.
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Good post.
 
My first thoughts of suicide (suicidal ideation) were probably when as young as 11. Countless more times since.

I can see how from the outside it could appear selfish, but selfishness is surely an intentional self absorption in one’s own well being and benefit at the expense of others. This clearly isn’t the case with suicide.

Actually, in my experience you’re not thinking that anyone will miss you, in many cases that’s the primary motivation for suicidal thoughts in the first place - that you don’t matter to anyone, and in fact the world would be a better place if you weren’t around.

Often, suicidal people think it’s ‘for the best’, as in the best all round.

It’s neither selfish nor brave, it’s the last act of an utterly mentally and emotionally destroyed, vulnerable human being who has lost all sense of worth and sees no way to rectify things.

What suicide isn’t, is appropriate conversation fodder for flippant, pub expert style gobshites who haven’t a clue what being at the extreme depths of mental despair feels like. Least of all to speculate on whether the victim is brave or a coward, or how ‘they’d’ never do it because they’re somehow of superior moral character...

That’s not a dig on anyone in particular, but I’ve been on here long enough to know how these threads turn out.
 

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