Stoke think a lot of themselves


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They’re also an antidote to the idea that football should be played to look beautiful and to hell with the results, which again, is only one of many ways of looking at it. In their way, Stoke are as tactically excellent as Barcelona, it’s just a very dour sort of football they play. But it requires as much an understanding of shape, position, moves and routine to work. If it was just a simple case of hoofing the ball up to a big person in the box then they would be no more successful than most.

Surely they're as tactically excellent as a pass and move equivalent that finished in 8th-12th place, not the European Champions.
 
Surely they're as tactically excellent as a pass and move equivalent that finished in 8th-12th place, not the European Champions.

Which is why I said they were in their way, not that they outright are.

Both owe much of their success to the systems, shape and tactics as they do their players. the above lift their players to a better level. But with Stoke it makes them more than the sum of their parts, whereas with Barca it does that too but to a completely transcendent level.

Barca are massively better than Stoke, obviously. But both teams are as good as they are because they make the most of very specific tactics and systems and drill to that end.
 
Which is why I said they were in their way, not that they outright are.

Both owe much of their success to the systems, shape and tactics as they do their players. the above lift their players to a better level. But with Stoke it makes them more than the sum of their parts, whereas with Barca it does that too but to a completely transcendent level.

Barca are massively better than Stoke, obviously. But both teams are as good as they are because they make the most of very specific tactics and systems and drill to that end.

I don't care how you started it, how you ended it, what went on inbetween, the fact is... you said that Stoke were as tactically excellent as Barcelona.

Stoke are offensive to watch, and Pulis would have rather signed Peyton Manning than Peter Crouch.

The points you've put across in the post are both ignorant and moronic. Please, jog on.
 
I don't care how you started it, how you ended it, what went on inbetween, the fact is... you said that Stoke were as tactically excellent as Barcelona.

Stoke are offensive to watch, and Pulis would have rather signed Peyton Manning than Peter Crouch.

The points you've put across in the post are both ignorant and moronic. Please, jog on.

Clearly the problem here is that you haven't the intelligence to understand the point he's making. The only ignorant moron here is you. :lol:
 
I don't care how you started it, how you ended it, what went on inbetween, the fact is... you said that Stoke were as tactically excellent as Barcelona.

Stoke are offensive to watch, and Pulis would have rather signed Peyton Manning than Peter Crouch.

The points you've put across in the post are both ignorant and moronic. Please, jog on.

No, I said, "In their way". Not "in absolute terms" or "outright" or "irrefutably". I qualified what I said. Feel free to find my post moronic though if you want. Don't really care what someone who seems to think a football manager would rather sign a Quarterback than a footballer thinks to be honest. Bit of an ignorant and moronic thing to say.
 
No, I said, "In their way". Not "in absolute terms" or "outright" or "irrefutably". I qualified what I said. Feel free to find my post moronic though if you want. Don't really care what someone who seems to think a football manager would rather sign a Quarterback than a footballer thinks to be honest. Bit of an ignorant and moronic thing to say.

Stoke 2009/10, 11th with 47 points, 2010/11 13th with 46 points
Sunderland 2009/10 13th with 44 points, 2010/11 10th with 47 points

Last year they, outright, irrefutable, in absolute terms moved backwards.
 
Stoke 2009/10, 11th with 47 points, 2010/11 13th with 46 points
Sunderland 2009/10 13th with 44 points, 2010/11 10th with 47 points

Last year they, outright, irrefutable, in absolute terms moved backwards.

They're in Europe now and got to a final last year. So I'd say that it's not as you state, and at least debatable. Depends how you measure progress doesn't it.

And Stoke's position has no bearing on what I said anyway. Again, because of my clever use of the qualification-"in their way". Tremendous thing, the English language. A few words can transform the meaning of a sentence entirely.
 
Stoke 2009/10, 11th with 47 points, 2010/11 13th with 46 points
Sunderland 2009/10 13th with 44 points, 2010/11 10th with 47 points

Last year they, outright, irrefutable, in absolute terms moved backwards.

Moved backwards? Outright? Irrefutable?? They competed in an FA Cup final and are playing in Europe this season!
 
I agree with your last post, however it is their thuggish behavior which annoys me

Thats what pisses me off about them. Couldn't give 2 fucks about hoof and header footy but when they are constantly fouling the opposition and getting away with it "cos it's Stoke, thats how they play" it fucks me off no end.

I remember the game the other year when Shawcross was kicking the fuck out of our strikers and nothing was done. We had at least 3 sure fire pennas refused (partly because the ref thought giving a penna might spoil the game????? wtf the baldy ****!?!).

Then you have the game with Gordon in goal where at least 2 of their goals were fouls and I think the other was offside or summit? Holding onto a goalies arm, smashing the goalie before the ball has even come near, etc..etc..

Don't mind them bullying teams, but when it's a foul the refs need to act.

Will Delap still get a game next season, that is the main question :)

Yep. He will probably be benched unless they are losing and if it's not working (which it never does) they will start with him from the off again and revert to playing Rugby :lol:
 
these signings should help them to another staffordshire cup final appearance
 
They're in Europe now and got to a final last year. So I'd say that it's not as you state, and at least debatable. Depends how you measure progress doesn't it.

And Stoke's position has no bearing on what I said anyway. Again, because of my clever use of the qualification-"in their way". Tremendous thing, the English language. A few words can transform the meaning of a sentence entirely.

Seen as the Europa league and cup final go hand in hand, it can't be viewed as two seperate improvements really, can it?

They're in the Europa league due to a technicality, and finished lower down in the league than they did the previous season.

Plus, your original post was trying to justify Stoke's, quite frankly, horrendous football, and then you didn't laugh at my Peyton Manning joke, which upset me a little.
 
Thats what pisses me off about them. Couldn't give 2 fucks about hoof and header footy but when they are constantly fouling the opposition and getting away with it "cos it's Stoke, thats how they play" it fucks me off no end.

I remember the game the other year when Shawcross was kicking the fuck out of our strikers and nothing was done. We had at least 3 sure fire pennas refused (partly because the ref thought giving a penna might spoil the game????? wtf the baldy ****!?!).

Then you have the game with Gordon in goal where at least 2 of their goals were fouls and I think the other was offside or summit? Holding onto a goalies arm, smashing the goalie before the ball has even come near, etc..etc..

Don't mind them bullying teams, but when it's a foul the refs need to act.

Remind of NZ at rugby in this regard. I always used to loathe the All Blacks (until i went to NZ and fell hopelessly in love with the place) because they were/are good enough to win without cheating but still did (possibly do, didn't see this years Tri-Nations) anyway.

But like I said, it's top level, where winning is meant to be the thing. I wish we were more cynical sometimes to be honest. If a ref is clearly soft or biased on one issue than there's certainly the case to be made for abusing that. But it's a slippery slope, where does it end etc.

But we would have won a few more games last year if we had made more of some fouls, made some dives etc. Cabaye's tackle on Bardsley was a red if Bardo stayed down, but he got up. Good on him for that, but if everyone else is doing otherwise it makes you wonder, at a hyper competitive level, whether we shouldn't adopt the same rules ourselves.
 
one of them was hoping crouch would get them 15-20 goals the other day :lol:
 
Thats what pisses me off about them. Couldn't give 2 fucks about hoof and header footy but when they are constantly fouling the opposition and getting away with it "cos it's Stoke, thats how they play" it fucks me off no end.

I remember the game the other year when Shawcross was kicking the fuck out of our strikers and nothing was done. We had at least 3 sure fire pennas refused (partly because the ref thought giving a penna might spoil the game????? wtf the baldy ****!?!).

Then you have the game with Gordon in goal where at least 2 of their goals were fouls and I think the other was offside or summit? Holding onto a goalies arm, smashing the goalie before the ball has even come near, etc..etc..

Don't mind them bullying teams, but when it's a foul the refs need to act.



Yep. He will probably be benched unless they are losing and if it's not working (which it never does) they will start with him from the off again and revert to playing Rugby :lol:
Remember that game as well, and it was f***ing disgusting the way they went on. I think it is down to the ref to clampdown on them though. It was the 0-0 game wasn't? I think anyway.

Looking at the stats i posted before they commit the same number of fouls on average as we do, but have slightly worse disciplinary. Going off that game it suggests the refs aren't picking up on their behaviour sometimes.
 
Seen as the Europa league and cup final go hand in hand, it can't be viewed as two seperate improvements really, can it?

They're in the Europa league due to a technicality, and finished lower down in the league than they did the previous season.

Plus, your original post was trying to justify Stoke's, quite frankly, horrendous football, and then you didn't laugh at my Peyton Manning joke, which upset me a little.

I'd say it can, as to get to a cup final and still be ok in the league probably requires winning more games than coming tenth or what have you, especially given you have to manage a war on two fronts as it where.

And this year they've been successful in both cup and league, and have strengthened some more. They don't look like a team going, or gone, backwards to me.

You're clearly looking at football in terms of morality or aesthetics, hence the word horrendous. I don't like watching, or enjoy playing, football the Stoke way. But TACTICALLY it isn't horrendous at all. If it worked very badly, it would be. But it doesn't, it works rather well. Given my point was overtly about TACTCS rather than anything else calling their football horrendous is debating a different point to what I made.

The Peyton Manning joke has potential but it needs more depth, dosen't work as a one-liner.

Hope this helps,
 
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